Copying features from commercial hammocks or gear for personal use? What's the view on this?

[Kalle Mandelstam]

Thanks you all! I'll start build threads as I go along this adventure.

[nothermark]

There are two things worth understanding.

Patent law involves commercial production not individual use in most countries. In the US one can order a copy of the patent drawing and use it to make something for themselves but not for sale.

Most ideas in areas like hammocks have been tried before. Often many times. Patents are only for new inventions thus most ideas are not patentable because there is prior art showing the same idea in practice. Given that anything you make is fair game as long as you don't sell it. IMHO the only legal issue you might have is if you do a bottom entry as I don't think any other feature has not been done before.

There have been some arguments over commercial producers copying other makers special features but they fall into ethical not legal areas.

[Kalle Mandelstam]

There are two things worth understanding.

Patent law involves commercial production not individual use in most countries. In the US one can order a copy of the patent drawing and use it to make something for themselves but not for sale.

Most ideas in areas like hammocks have been tried before. Often many times. Patents are only for new inventions thus most ideas are not patentable because there is prior art showing the same idea in practice. Given that anything you make is fair game as long as you don't sell it. IMHO the only legal issue you might have is if you do a bottom entry as I don't think any other feature has not been done before.

There have been some arguments over commercial producers copying other makers special features but they fall into ethical not legal areas.

Didn't know that about patents actually, that you're free to make a copy for personal use. But it makes sense as I think about it. Thanks for the clarification!

[Boston]

Patent law involves commercial production not individual use in most countries. In the US one can order a copy of the patent drawing and use it to make something for themselves but not for sale.

This actually is not true, from my understanding. It's just often not enforced, or worth enforcing unless it's being done en-masse. Patents protect all potential uses for the invention, including home made copy cat's. Now, there are sometimes fair use restrictions, but in general if a patent exists you can't directly copy the invention legally. The reason is it can be argued making your own takes a sale away from the party with the patent, regardless of actual intent to purchase (you benefited from the invention without compensating it's owner).

However, how the patent is written is important. Take for instance the Ridge Runner Patent.

The ornamental design for a hammock, substantially as shown in the attached drawings.

Basically he has patented the appearance of the hammock. Any solid line is included in the patented design (dashed lines would be excluded). As the whole hammock is shown, significant differences in other area's, or to the shape of the saddle bags would probably* make you safe, (along with the fact that the general structure of a bridge isn't patent-able). This patent is basically designed to prevent someone from directly copying his visual design, but a similar design is fair game.

*I say probably because i'm not a patent lawyer, this is just my layman's understanding.

[diy_john]

What if someone wanted to sell a hammock for profit? What would be acceptable in the community? There a some companies selling options on there hammock that are (from my understanding) from individuals on the forum. And what would be considered crossing the line? Obviously no patented features. And would one be crossing the line by say selling a hammock with Black Diamond carabiner? And I don't mean calling it your own carabiner?

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[Boston]

If you post it on here, or anywhere, without any legal protection it's free game. This is part of the reason many of the older crowd no longer post their innovations - before there were no/few cottage guys (in fact, most of the cottage guys ARE the older crowd). Now it's such a popular, competitive industry that much of the incentive to innovate and share for the sake of furthering the field is gone, because someone else will pick up your work and profit from it.

As for your question about selling using a carabiner you didn't make - this is what literally every industry does. Buys components from someone else to sell as part of a different product. As long as there isn't a "No Resale" clause in the purchase you're fine. Usually you buy wholesale from a distributor in bulk to save on unit price, but nothing is stopping you from paying retail.

[Kalle Mandelstam]

I know Brandon has a patent for his Blackbird hammock that covers the footbox and shelf pocket etc. At the same time there's plans to be found here that's basically clones or copies of those features. Can it be considered personal use if you upload plans and instructions for the public to use? For copyrighted digital material it's often allowed to make personal copies but the sharing is prohibited even if it's non profit. It's still a potential loss for the copyright holder. Same thing can be argued with the sharing of plans and instructions for clones/copies of patented hammocks I guess?