bottom insulation recommendation

[PharmGeek]

If you must do down on your budget - AND you have all the sewing stuff you need - machine - scissors - etc etc etc ....AND you have the time and inclination - that is doable

I would be weary though

If you spend 180 (easy to do for a zero rated UQ on materials alone) then you build but mess it up - you will quickly wish you spent the doh in a cottage vendor made item.

I just finished my first UQ and it was after doing my first TQ

It is doable but if you are totally new - you will need to work up to that point...

In a way - if one is on a strict budget and you are not yet experienced with sewing this stuff - better chance your first attempt will be flubbed making it not clearly more "financially conservative"?

Food for thought.


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[str8moben]

Yeah if it was building something I might be tentatively down. Sewing...I throw my pants away when I blow a button...

But I'm willing to consider synthetic, just really really prefer down.

So am I wrong to believe that I can use a 30°UQ down to 0° with other implements?

Thanks again for all the replies!

[HangingUp]

I used a pad for a while, but got tired of it slipping all over the place, so I bought a down UG from Enlightened Equipment. My 10° Revolt is a prized possession now; I sleep like a toasty baby. Packs down to nothing and is light as a feather! No regrets other than not doing it sooner. I don't make bank, but the expense was with every penny. I would have went for a warmer rating if I was in your area, but here in the South, 10° is about as low as I'll ever need. You need more flexibility in your TQ choices- I suggest going with a down UQ and get one that hits the lowest temp ranges you'll see. Regulate comfort with venting and TQ in warmer weather. After much research, EE had some of the best price/weight/temp combinations I could find. Their craftsmanship is awesome and your customization choices are the widest out there. My 2¢.


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[str8moben]

Thanks for the site. They've got some great looking gear!

The only thing that scared me was they had the revolt 30° for $230, which is $50 more than the 30° Eno of the same fill power. Albeit, a lot more customization. I'll have to reassess my price point. I don't want to force myself into a product just because I can get it cheap.

Another thought, I was thinking of using my TQ as an UQ but it only has tie points on the bottom. But looking at the revolt, it just looks like an unzipped sleeping bag. Would I be remiss to attempt to use my 0° sleeping bag as a bottom quilt? I think I recall seeing Shug do it?

[leiavoia]

You might consider my layered Costco quilt design I recently posted. It seems like what you are looking for and doesn't require sewing. It will layer with any other gear you might be using.

http://leiavoia.net/pages/hammock/geminiquilt.html

[str8moben]

Awesome page! Thanks.

[HangingUp]

Be sure your watching the quilt weights when comparing; my 10° EE Revolt is lighter than ENO's 30-40° quilt. There is about a 10-12 oz difference between the comparable temp ratings). If you are only car camping, weight won't be much of a concern. You could definitely try using your sleeping bag as an UQ, but it will have a bit of "fiddle factor" and will most likely be a heavier, bulkier option.


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[kitsapcowboy]

Loco Libre Gear Cayenne Pepper Underquilt CS 6.0 with full-length extra layer of CS 3.6...I don't think a four-season AHE KAQ New River will take someone down to O degrees F.

There is actually more insulation in a 4s KAQ than the option you described.

Very good to know, Paul. So are you saying that all your 4-season KAQs are made with a single layer of Climashield Apex 10.0 synthetic insulation?

If so, I certainly stand corrected, and I apologize for being in error. By my math, there was (6.0 + 3.6) = 9.6 oz oz of Climashield Apex insulation per sq yd with a thermal resistance of 0.82 CLO (per oz/sq yd) in the UQ option I suggested as being able to take a user to 0F. When I posted I was unaware that any of the 4-season KAQ UQ models is made with more than 9.6 oz/sq yd of the same Climashield Apex insulation, so I'm sorry for that.

As a noticed about a year ago when I was shopping with you for my first Jarbidge River UQ, the AHE website has always seemed a bit circumspect in its description of the 4-season quilts.

For example, the New River UQ product page reads:

The 3S version features 6oz APEX Climashield insulation and will take most users to 25°. Also available in 1S with 3.6 oz Climashield that will be good for most users to the 40's.

Description of the insulation type and temperature rating of the 4-season New River model is conspicuously and completely absent. The only way you even know the 4-season New River exists is by employing the drop-down menu for insulation type; it's not even mentioned in the text.

On the Potomac UQ product page, while it does give a suggested temperature rating, it does not verify insulation type in a manner parallel to the 1S and 3S models:

The 3S version features 6oz APEX Climashield Synthetic insulation and will take most users to 25°. Also available in 1S with 3.6 oz APEX Climashield that will be good for most users to the 40's. The 4 season version will take most to at least 10°F

Also, while the weight of the 3S model is given, the weight of the 4S is not, so even a quantitative potential customer lacks the data necessary to calculate the construction of the 4S and infer its insulation type.

On the Jarbidge River UQ page, while in similar fashion the suggested temperature rating is given, the insulation type used in the 4-season model is again omitted:

The 3 Season version features 6oz APEX Climashield and will take most users to 25°. Also available in 1Season with 3.6 oz Climashield APEX that will be good for most users to the 40's and the 4 Season option will take most into the single digits.

In this instance, the 4S model is described with a somewhat different temperature rating, but because information on the insulation type is absent one cannot infer whether this difference is attributable to how much insulation it contains or to other factors.

To date, nowhere on the AHE website product pages have I been able to find information that advertises any of your underquilt models as rated for 0 degrees F, which is the temperature rating about which the OP inquired. This, along with my own incorrect assumption, led me to make the errors in my previous post. With this information missing on insulation type from the descriptions of your various underquilts, I had always assumed that 4S KAQs were made with a single layer of CS 7.5, a weight at which, at its advertised CLO and using the common rule of thumb for the calculation, would get a user to the approximate temperatures that you do describe for your 4S UQ models on your site.

Cross-checking the 4-season top quilts for comparison, it is also the case that the Owyhee TQ product page does not specify its 4-season insulation type, only a 10F temperature rating:

The 3S version features 6 oz APEX Climashield synthetic insulation and will take most users to 25°F. Also available in 1S with 3.6oz Climashield synthetic insulation that will be good for most users to the mid 40's and 4 Season(winter) will take you down to 10°F.

Only the very recently added White Cloud top quilt product page explicitly confirms the use of Climashield Apex 10.0 insulation in the 4-season model, but again it lists a temperature rating -- albeit a conservative one that I definitely tend to agree with -- of 10 degrees F:

The 3S version features 6 oz APEX Climashield synthetic insulation and will take most users to 25°F. Also available in 1S with 3.6oz Climashield synthetic insulation that will be good for most users to the mid 40's and 4 Season(winter) will take you down to 10°F with 10oz APEX.

Taking your response at face value, now I know better about how your KAQs are made.

As a previous customer, I would humbly suggest that you consider updating the aforementioned KAQ product pages on your website to offer insulation type and temperature ratings on all models in direct parallel; I think it would reduce confusion and eliminate guesswork on the part of prospective buyers. I think in my case if this information had been more readily available online, it is likely that today I would own more AHE quilts than the three I do now.

Again, sorry for the mistake, and thanks for your consideration of possible remedies for misunderstanding.