Questions about continuous loop variations

**Spaceman** · 02-09-2017, 16:03

There are quite a few tutorials for continuous loops floating around, both here and on YouTube. The two most common ones seem to be:

-the "no bump" version that uses a plain brummel with tails that aren't folded back on themselves (Opie's version).

-the "bump" version that uses a "locked" brummel with tails folded back on themselves, resulting in a slightly raised bump on the finished loop (I believe this is the version used by Dutch and Dream Hammock, based on the visual bump I see in their product photos, but I'm not certain).

Top loop is the no-bump version with plain brummel. Bottom loop is the bump version with "locked" brummel.

My understanding is that the no-bump version is stronger because it gets it's strength from the buries, where the bump version gets it's strength solely from the "lock" in the brummel. The buries, in the case of the bump loop, are just nice ways of securing/hiding the tails. Is that true? Has anyone done destructive testing on both versions to see which is stronger?

My guess is the bump version is more popular because it does a better job of securing the tails under no-load conditions. They can still come loose, but not as easy as they do on the no-bump version. I don't want to mess with stitching the tails in a no-bump version, but would like to know how much strength I'm giving up (if any) by choosing the bump version.

As a side note, is the Arrowhead Equipment chain-link a no-bump loop like Opie's, but with shrink tubing over the splice in lieu of tail stitching, or is there something else going on there?

**mcbpdx** · 02-09-2017, 17:06

[following] I always make mine like the one on the left. I have no idea if one is stronger than the other.

**Phantom Grappler** · 02-09-2017, 18:16

I used continuous loops for several years. Mostly I used Grog Sling found on Grogg Knot app. You can read the info section in Grogg Knot app that comes with each knot or splice shown. I found a way to make the buries more likely to not be pulled out--right before pulling the buries in--and after checking that length is ok--I put water resistant glue on the part to be buried near locked brummel. Also I tried reversing the buries directions or sides so that they actually went across instead of turning back into themselves. Both ways worked but Grogg Sling is neater.
Both the bump version ( locked brummel) and the no bump version with stitching and long enough buries WORK just fine.
I like the bump version best(Grogg Sling) because you can have smaller and lighter continuous loops and still be safe for hammocks.
It really is your personal preference!

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**Spaceman** · 02-09-2017, 20:16

Thanks for the link on the Grog Sling. I remember seeing that before, but it's probably been a year or two. Based on those instructions, it looks like the buries can be shorter than when making the no-bump, unlocked brummel version (30x dia or 1.4 fids instead of 42x dia or 2 fids). Makes sense since the locked brummel is taking up some of the load.

Do you happen to know if their min. 30x dia bury length includes the taper? For 7/64" loops with plain brummels (no bump), I had been using Samson's recommendations of 1 fid length for the taper (2.3") and 2 fid lengths for the bury (4.6") for a total of 6.9" for each tail. If I switch to a loop with the locked brummel and use the GrogSling instructions to reduce the bury to 30x dia, that would be 3.28". I'm going to assume I should add Samson's 1 fid length taper to that for a total tail length of roughly 5.6". Sound about right?

**jellyfish** · 02-09-2017, 20:29

This is interesting.

My first CL had a loop, and I thought I did something wrong, so I've been making them without the bump every since for aesthetic reasons. I'm curious if one is better than the other.

**kitsapcowboy** · 02-09-2017, 21:54

Originally Posted by mcbpdx

I always make mine like the one on the left. I have no idea if one is stronger than the other.

Likewise, I do not bump...

**Benji** · 02-09-2017, 23:11

I've always gone with the first way (no bump) but then my loops are larks headed or wrapped around fabric or hardware, I make sure the splice is "in" that lards head or wrap. Not only do I have the bury holding force but also the tails are inside the binding action. Its such a easy way to insure more holding power.
Benji

**ndstephens** · 02-09-2017, 23:25

no bump, no issues

**knightshade** · 09-25-2017, 05:50

I am glad to see that I am not the only one wondering which is the "best" way to make a continuous loop.

I had watched tutorials that showed both ways - with a locked brummel (with the tails going back into their own end of the rope)
or the brummel determining the "minimum" loop size, and the tail ends going into the the other end of the rope.

After playing with both for a bit - I have opted for using the locked brummel version, which I can now l properly call a Grogg Sling.
The decision point was that handling under no load could loosen up the other splice.
Admittedly, the risk of this is greatly minimized when a loop is larks-headed onto a hammock with the brummel centered at the knot.

The down side of the Grogg Sling approach is that it is the weaker of the two - with the brummel being the weakest location of the loop.
This too can be minimized by placing it in that same location of a larks head knot at the end of a hammock.

After reading some things today - I've got a new academic dilemma on this topic:
As I prefer the locked brummel version - as it greatly reduces the chances of the bury coming out....
Why not determine an appropriately sized dogbone for the end of my hammock.
From what I can see, this could work the same from a suspension perspective; the loops wouldn't have a tendancy to unburry, and would be stronger than a Grogg Sling (at least in terms of a the brummel being the weakest link under tension).

Am I missing something?

**Phantom Grappler** · 09-25-2017, 08:55

I use a locked brummel on fixed loops and continuous loops. Even though the other way is "stronger", I don't want anything sliding apart when not under load. And I don't think it makes a big difference for hammock use.
Both ways of splicing are used successfully by hammockers as they see fit.

It might make a difference for industrial use, and rock climbing,with more weight under load.

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