To 40* UQ or NOT to 40* UQ??? That is the question.

[blgoode]

Not to throw a wrench in...but have you thought about a partial length like the Phoenix? I like my 20 Phoenix and 0 Incubator. For me, at warmer temps, a full length is unnecessary. Both for the added weight and especially the bulk. At 40* and up, you definitely won't need a pad in the footbox if that's a concern.

I must have cold sensitive feet because the most frustrating night I had with my feet and a partial under quilt was a 46 degree night. The full length solved all my issues with my feet.

[Al Icks]

That's fair. I'm not sure I would like a 7/8 because to me, that would just feel like it was a full length that was a little too short. I had the full length first (actually 2 but I sold one) and thought it would be a downgrade in comfort going to the partial length but it was the opposite. I find the partial length Phoenix to be more comfortable and less fidly than the full length. My feet can tend to slip out of the underquilt if I move around too much, which doesn't happen with the partial length for obvious reasons.

Just wanted to mention that. Good luck with your purchase and hopefully it comes sooner than expected. That time between purchase and delivery can be a killer

[bobbycobbler]

i like a simple 3/4 synthetic for night temps in the mid 40 range. Warm enough, not really that bulky, and i don't worry about it as much (dirt, grime, moisture). It packs fine and set up is a no brainer. I use the Jarbidge. Its like 19-20 oz. Pretty light.

[Scouter_Ken]

This is just my 2 cents based on many years of camping in NC.

1. a 3/4 length Phoenix 40 should be fine for the spring, fall and much of the winter
2. don't bother bringing a UQ if the low temp is forecasted above 70. there have been many warm NC summer nights where I was much cooler, as long as there was a small breeze, than the ground dwellers.
3. the Phoenix is smaller in your pack and thus saves room on a multi-day backpacking trip
4. if the weather does get into the 20s just back some down booties and clean pair of wool socks that are just used for sleeping. if you are a cold sleeper pack a foam pad for colder nights. some have a short and thin foam pad just for the calf and foot area - experience is the only answer on this one.

[blgoode]

I thought a foot pad would work for me so I went the partial length from the get go. I spent too much time putting the foot pad pack under my feet. I learned I'm a kicker in my sleep so a foot pad won't work for me. Even in warmer temps. I must be unusual.

[Scouter_Ken]

If the foot pad moves too much you may want to try putting a couple lines of silnet on the bottom of the pad. once the silnet dries there is enough stick to keep it in place.

this is what I used on a sleeping pad before buying an UQ. will not eliminate the pad slipping but will greatly reduce it.

[blgoode]

If the foot pad moves too much you may want to try putting a couple lines of silnet on the bottom of the pad. once the silnet dries there is enough stick to keep it in place.

this is what I used on a sleeping pad before buying an UQ. will not eliminate the pad slipping but will greatly reduce it.

Well. - I'm a full UQ convert now one night with the incubator and my feet are happy!! I don't think I could go the other way now

[Secondmouse]

Why would the benifitsbof synthetic be obvious? What am I missing except added weight and less compressibility going with synthetic??

sorry, I got sidetracked and forgot about this thread...

anyway, both down and synthetic have strengths and weaknesses. down's strengths are warmth per weight (lighter), compressibility, and it is long lasting (durable). its weaknesses are cost, moisture handling, and the construction (baffles) required to stabilize the insulation.

synthetic's strengths are it costs less, dries quicker and can actually keep you warm when wet, and it doesn't need specific construction techniques compared to down. it's weaknesses are it is heavier (per temp rating), it doesn't compress as well, and it generally doesn't have as long life as down.

the strengths and weaknesses cross each other but as the temperature goes up it favors synthetics.

below freezing, I choose down all day. down is light weight so the shell can be stuffed as full as needed to provide suitable warmth. it's compressible, so your winter pack doesn't overflow. also, below freezing the moisture you encounter will most likely not be liquid so down's weakness of moisture handling shouldn't come up. it costs more but a well made down bag will last for years.

now once the average temperature gets above 35-40*, synthetic starts to take over. all the moisture you encounter (rain, fog, humidity, sweat, spills) will be liquid. synthetics will dry quickly and will actually keep you warm(er) when wet, whereas down clumps up and doesn't dry without a lot of time/wind/sun or mechanical help.

the weight advantage of down at 20* starts to disappear in warm season quilts. with less loft, fill density becomes very important. when down loft is 2-3", it can tolerate thin spots much better than when it is 1" or less, so baffles need to be smaller to stabilize the down in place. the shell with down baffles of a 40* quilt is not much lighter than a 20* quilt. cutting the weight of the down is the smaller percentage of the total.

still, if all you use is weight to decide, down is absolutely lighter. looking at top quilts, a premium down 40* TQ will weigh somewhere around 13.7-14oz while I am testing a 45* TQ made with Primaloft Gold weighing right at 17.5oz.

4oz is not nothing, however synthetic quilts retail for about $100 less than a down quilt and will more reliably keep you warm than down under 3 season conditions as well as being easier to launder, which a warm season quilt will meed more of...

[Shug]

I thought a foot pad would work for me so I went the partial length from the get go. I spent too much time putting the foot pad pack under my feet. I learned I'm a kicker in my sleep so a foot pad won't work for me. Even in warmer temps. I must be unusual.

Try putting it inside your TQ.
Shug


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[El Gordo]

I think everyone should try a Phoenix with a Therm-a-Rest pad in the TQ foot box. Then, if they are like me, they can swap the Phoenix for an Incubator, and finally have warm feet.