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  1. #21
    Senior Member kitsapcowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    back when I embarked on the challenge of a 'light-as-possible' bridge hammock, I used cord instead of webbing because the cord was lighter. If this kevlar webbing had been around then I'm sure I would have given that a try. Great to see you pushing the envelope.

    bet you could push the envelope even further by doing without the fancy metal corners. Jest sayin'

    thanks for posting
    Thank you, Grizz, both for the background and the encouragement.

    When I was formulating my action plan for this build and doing some impromptu number-crunching, I did consider the very valid point you make, that if I were truly looking to shave every excess gram, a no-hardware version of the Web Slinger would be a valid first step.

    The Web Slinger as outlined in this thread weighs about 6.5 ounces, and the component weights break down approximately like this:

    Titanium corner bling -- 1 ounce
    1/2" Kevlar webbing (double layer in each edge, 1100 lbs breaking strength, 220 lb safe working load) -- 1/2 ounce
    7/64" Amsteel Blue suspension triangles -- 1/2 ounce
    Everything else (hammock body, double-layer end caps, reinforcement patches, thread) -- 4 ounces

    There's about 26 grams of weight at stake in the titanium corner pieces, so if I were to figure out how to eliminate them and connect the webbing directly to the Amsteel with no added material, I could in theory drop almost a full ounce and make this a sub-six-ounce build. Splicing the Amsteel directly through the turnaround loop at each corner of the Kevlar would be easy enough -- although neither aesthetically pleasing nor likely to be good for the longevity of the webbing -- but the hitch would be in finding a way to capture the spreader bar tips effectively while adding negligible weight. There are a number of possible methods, including small cord loops, lightweight ring hardware, and other hacks, but none of them seemed to offer the security, longevity, and general bombproof fit of the Dutch bling (which also solves the issue of underquilt attachment).

    By a combination of other choices, a true gram weenie could knock off an ounce in other places in the Web Slinger's design. First thing to go would be the double-layer end caps, which form convenient storage pockets at the head and foot of the hammock; I used 0.67 oz mesh in this build, which is pretty darn light, but the two inner pocket layers comprises over half a square yard of nonstructural fabric, so eliminating them would have shaved about 10 grams. Making the end cap panels out of mesh instead of the Hexon fabric would save another 2 or 3 grams, and if we scalloped or relieved them we could probably increase the total weight savings to 6 grams. So we're 62% of the way toward cancelling out the weight penalty of the bling just by getting creative with more minimalist end caps.

    Throwing caution to the wind and deleting the reinforcements and sleeves at the corners made from 300D pack cloth would give us another 5 or 6 grams, and eliminating the end caps wholesale -- however awkward, ungainly, and inconvenient -- would afford us the few remaining grams we'd need to let us keep the titanium corner hardware at zero net weight.

    From this point on we would start to get truly draconian. If one were to throw the 1:5 safety margin out the window and limit the use of the Web Slinger to brave occupants under 150 lbs (ideally with health insurance), a single layer of 1/2" Kevlar webbing could serve as the in-edge suspension component; with about 12 feet of Kevlar removed, we'd reduce the weight by another 6 or 7 grams, approaching a truly "stupid light" total hammock weight of just over 5 ounces. If one then implemented the aforementioned hardware-deletion protocol and lived with the potential wonkiness of the spreader bar connections, you'd be looking at a sub-five-ounce bridge hammock. It would probably blow up if you sneezed in it, but it would be light.

    As it stands, I think the way I built this particular hammock is about as light as I am comfortable with, given my own personal preferences and biases. It assembles fairly easily, has extremely positive connections where the spreaders join the suspension, and retains the luxuries of a properly enclosed hammock body, integral storage solutions, and insulation compatibility. As log as the high-stress structural areas of this build hold up adequately, I'll call it a qualified success.

    All in all, for me this build was significantly more demanding technically than the Rope Bridge hammock inspired in part by your Ariel design. I really love the strength, elegant simplicity, and straightforward assembly of the all-in-one spliced Amsteel suspension, and it is really quite light. The real hit on my riff on your build, of course, is using the wide folded grosgrain to form expediently the required suspension channels for the cord; the ribbon adds about 3 full ounces to the Rope Bridge build -- nearly half the weight of the entire Web Slinger -- but it speeds up the assembly, makes for a strong and durable connection to the fabric of the hammock body, and demands much less sewing skill than triple-stitching two layers of 1/2" Kevlar inside a roll hem, as was necessary on this hammock.

    If I were to build a titanium/Kevlar hammock like this again using a much sturdier body fabric like Hexon 1.6 or 1.7 oz ROBIC Hybrid, I'd have a full-size bridge hammock that would weigh just over half a pound and would be well nigh indestructable for any user under 220 pounds. That would be good enough for me.



    As always, I am grateful for your dedication and groundbreaking work on DIY bridge hammocks, as well as your assistance in refining these ideas and combinations of techniques.
    Last edited by kitsapcowboy; 02-18-2017 at 20:24.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member GrizzlyAdams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitsapcowboy View Post

    When I was formulating my action plan for this build and doing some impromptu number-crunching, I did consider the very valid point you make, that if I were truly looking to shave every excess gram, a no-hardware version of the Web Slinger would be a valid first step.

    ...

    There's about 26 grams of weight at stake in the titanium corner pieces, so if I were to figure out how to eliminate them and connect the webbing directly to the Amsteel with no added material, I could in theory drop almost a full ounce and make this a sub-six-ounce build...
    I had to climb in the way-back machine to find this, but here's the way I did webbing-side suspensions with an access slot for a pole tip.



    Something else to consider when playing with carbon poles, is that the flat part of the metal corner piece is not at 90 degrees to the pole and the force applied is on the edge of the pole where it touches the plate, not down the middle. The compression force is better centered with a cord-based receptor for the tip. Aluminum poles can take it, the many RidgeRunners out there prove the point.

    Now, not to suggest a rabbit hole that is ultimately time-consuming and ultimately very expensive to crawl out of (the Voice of Experience speaking here), but if you were to make the body of cuben fiber and just roll the edge to eliminate the webbing entirely, imagine the savings!

    There now, sorry, that was evil. You do best to just imagine the weight savings that are theoretically possible. Your sanity, your checkbook, and your significant other will be in a much better place if you just let that idea go....forget I ever mentioned it....
    Last edited by GrizzlyAdams; 02-18-2017 at 21:01.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member kitsapcowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    I had to climb in the way-back machine to find this, but here's the way I did webbing-side suspensions with an access slot for a pole tip.
    Ah, yes, a Grizz classic. Thank you for the superb video primer; I remain in awe of the never-ending versatility of precision-spliced braided Dyneema cord.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    Something else to consider when playing with carbon poles, is that the flat part of the metal corner piece is not at 90 degrees to the pole and the force applied is on the edge of the pole where it touches the plate, not down the middle. The compression force is better centered with a cord-based receptor for the tip. Aluminum poles can take it, the many RidgeRunners out there prove the point.
    Thanks. This is new information for me, and very good for me to know...

    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    Now, not to suggest a rabbit hole that is ultimately time-consuming and ultimately very expensive to crawl out of (the Voice of Experience speaking here), but if you were to make the body of cuben fiber and just roll the edge to eliminate the webbing entirely, imagine the savings!

    There now, sorry, that was evil. You do best to just imagine the weight savings that are theoretically possible. Your sanity, your checkbook, and your significant other will be in a much better place if you just let that idea go....forget I ever mentioned it....
    ROFL. Cuben Fiber scares me...
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  4. #24
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    I also wanted to comment that I liked the sheathing of the kevlar. That is a great way to add in some color accents, too.

    I have just made a bridge hammock using the kevlar webbing but I did not sleeve the kevlar where it meets the titanium hardware and the kevlar is being degraded by abrasion with the ti end pieces. The ti end pieces , relative the rest of the hammock seem clunky. The whoopie sling hooks also are abrading my whoopie slings.

    I then made a hexon / kevlar webbing bridge and used dog bones done directly to the kevlar webbing. One inch loops. Easy. No ti bricks. The spreaders fit in the eye of the dogbone. The color of the dogbone is rubbing off on the kevlar but there is no abrasion and the weight is reduced. I have seen others use this same tech . I fist thought the ti stuff was cool but now when I compare the two hexon hammocks I have a lot of buyers remorse about the ti. Those bits just put it into a different class of frivolous.

  5. #25
    Senior Member kitsapcowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heyoka View Post
    I also wanted to comment that I liked the sheathing of the kevlar. That is a great way to add in some color accents, too.

    I have just made a bridge hammock using the kevlar webbing but I did not sleeve the kevlar where it meets the titanium hardware and the kevlar is being degraded by abrasion with the ti end pieces. The ti end pieces , relative the rest of the hammock seem clunky. The whoopie sling hooks also are abrading my whoopie slings.

    I then made a hexon / kevlar webbing bridge and used dog bones done directly to the kevlar webbing. One inch loops. Easy. No ti bricks. The spreaders fit in the eye of the dogbone. The color of the dogbone is rubbing off on the kevlar but there is no abrasion and the weight is reduced. I have seen others use this same tech . I fist thought the ti stuff was cool but now when I compare the two hexon hammocks I have a lot of buyers remorse about the ti. Those bits just put it into a different class of frivolous.
    Thanks for your comments, Heyoka. I'm glad you think the sleeving was worthwhile.

    Even though they are the heaviest single hammock component (other than the fabric) and the most expensive, I still like the Ti Bridge Hammock Ends and don't personally consider them frivolous (for the aforementioned reasons), but I appreciate you confirming the alternative idea I had concerning direct connections with your own real-world experience. Either way someone goes on the use of bling versus no bling, I think there are valid arguments to be made, and once again project goals and personal preferences come into play.

    I hope you start your own DIY forum threads with project descriptions and photos of your two bridge hammocks to document the construction features you used.
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  6. #26
    Here's a link that might interest you concerning UL bridge hammocks ...
    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ght=Black+Wolf

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  7. #27
    Senior Member kitsapcowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
    Here's a link that might interest you concerning UL bridge hammocks ...
    That is indeed an interesting build.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member FJRpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
    Here's a link that might interest you concerning UL bridge hammocks ...
    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ght=Black+Wolf

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk
    Blackwolf, I noticed that you may have created a new account and may not be getting notifications on your original thread. There are at least a couple of us who would love to hear an update on your design without stealing Cowboys thread...
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.”

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  9. #29
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    Those end caps are beautiful too.

  10. #30
    Senior Member kitsapcowboy's Avatar
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    Twelfth Night (In This Hammock)

    Tonight will make a dozen nights spent in the Web Slinger hammock under normal camping use. Set it up under my hideously ugly Frankentarp, an 11-foot DIY beater hex I pieced together about a year ago from impossibly heavy $1 per yard Wal-Mart coated poly, nylon tie-down straps, and scavenged D-rings I happened to have on hand.



    Minimal chance of precipitation tonight, but expected lows are in the 30s, so I will hook up my DIY bridge hammock underquilt before I go out on my property this evening. Still watching the Web Slinger -- specifically, the center section of the long edges on the inboard row of stitches -- for signs of impending catastrophic failure, but so far, so good...

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    Last edited by kitsapcowboy; 04-03-2017 at 15:01.
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