Pros and cons of different underquilt suspensions?

[leiavoia]

@Foxpoop - going back over your post I'm now wondering if your nettles are made from shock-cord? On the picture it looks more like solid cord - which might explain why you don't experience slippage.

If the quilt is slipping off, that's a clear sign it's way too tight.

For what it's worth, i have 3 hammocks (10' WBBB, 11.5' DIY ripstop, 14' cotton Brazilian) and 2 clew quilts, one of which used to have a traditional primary/secondary suspension.

Both quilts fit all three hammocks with no gaps and no slippage. They are easy to swap out. Adjustment is as simple as tightening or loosening the attachment line.

I went through all the same stages of underquilt grief that you describe in the original post. I completely understand what you're saying. I switched my suspension out for an elastic 8-nettle design and i couldn't be happier with it.

[hutzelbein]

If the quilt is slipping off, that's a clear sign it's way too tight.

For what it's worth, i have 3 hammocks (10' WBBB, 11.5' DIY ripstop, 14' cotton Brazilian) and 2 clew quilts, one of which used to have a traditional primary/secondary suspension.

Both quilts fit all three hammocks with no gaps and no slippage. They are easy to swap out. Adjustment is as simple as tightening or loosening the attachment line.

I went through all the same stages of underquilt grief that you describe in the original post. I completely understand what you're saying. I switched my suspension out for an elastic 8-nettle design and i couldn't be happier with it.

You're right, my suspensions are very tight. I have tried to have them less tight, but that's when I start getting cold. So far, only the Wooki has been able to give me a seal that gets rid of smaller (maybe even smallest?) air gaps without creating other problems. Maybe I'll give the clew suspension another try with nonelastic cords, but it's very possible that this suspension simply doesn't work for my - admittedly extreme - needs.

[leiavoia]

You're right, my suspensions are very tight. I have tried to have them less tight, but that's when I start getting cold. So far, only the Wooki has been able to give me a seal that gets rid of smaller (maybe even smallest?) air gaps without creating other problems. Maybe I'll give the clew suspension another try with nonelastic cords, but it's very possible that this suspension simply doesn't work for my - admittedly extreme - needs.

Static lines won't work for underquilts. It's the elastic that makes it work.

I hang my clew quilts with very light tension. If it needs more than that to seal up gaps everywhere, then it is most likely just constructed wrong.

For me, good clew suspension solved precisely all of the issues you listed. I'm a happy camper. If i didn't think it would do the same for you, i would shut up about it ;-)

[jellyfish]

+ 1 for clews!

[hutzelbein]

Static lines won't work for underquilts. It's the elastic that makes it work.

I hang my clew quilts with very light tension. If it needs more than that to seal up gaps everywhere, then it is most likely just constructed wrong.

For me, good clew suspension solved precisely all of the issues you listed. I'm a happy camper. If i didn't think it would do the same for you, i would shut up about it ;-)

Why would static lines not work? The fabric "suspension" of the Wooki is nylon ripstop that doesn't stretch anywhere near as much as shock cord. It works perfectly.

What underquilt are you using? I think that the design of the underquilt probably has the biggest influence on how much pressure you need to get a good seal.

I might experiment a bit more with the clew design in the future - but I don't see a reason to build an underquilt for this suspension. If I want to build an underquilt that uses the clew suspension principle, I would always go for a Wooki-style fabric suspension. In my opinion, the only advantage the clew suspension has over the fabric suspension is that you can retrofit it.

In any case, for my first DIY underquilt I want to make a traditional underquilt to keep it simple. I will make it wider than most commercial underquilts, but I don't want to make it as wide as I would need to make it for the clew suspension to work really well.

[Foxpoop]

@Foxpoop - going back over your post I'm now wondering if your nettles are made from shock-cord? On the picture it looks more like solid cord - which might explain why you don't experience slippage.

My nettles are shockcord. The summer quilt in my picture above uses 2mm (5/64") reflective from litesmith. My heavier quilt uses 3/32" from Dutch.

[jellyfish]

My nettles are shockcord. The summer quilt in my picture above uses 2mm (5/64") reflective from litesmith. My heavier quilt uses 3/32" from Dutch.

My nettles are 1/16 shock cord (have 8 on one uq, 10 on another). So cozy and comfy.

[leiavoia]

Why would static lines not work? The fabric "suspension" of the Wooki is nylon ripstop that doesn't stretch anywhere near as much as shock cord. It works perfectly.

What underquilt are you using? I think that the design of the underquilt probably has the biggest influence on how much pressure you need to get a good seal.

I might experiment a bit more with the clew design in the future - but I don't see a reason to build an underquilt for this suspension. If I want to build an underquilt that uses the clew suspension principle, I would always go for a Wooki-style fabric suspension. In my opinion, the only advantage the clew suspension has over the fabric suspension is that you can retrofit it.

Both Wooki and clew designs work on the same basic physics, but some differences:

The Wooki is basically a hammock inside a hammock. It's also purpose-built for warbonnet hammocks. It holds shape with the hammock if it exactly matches the size of the hammock (which it does). It isn't designed for stretching because it isn't designed as a general purpose solution.

The clew design has the same "hammock inside a hammock" concept but is designed with elastic to fit virtually any GE hammock of any length. The elastic is what gives it gentle upward hug. It always matches the shape of the hammock. It even hangs like one when empty.

If you use static lines on a clew quilt and overtighten it by even a little bit, you just put your full body weight in your quilt. Damage will occur. Bad things will happen. Feathers will fly. Basically, elastic covers a multitude of sins.

The amount of tension you need depends mostly on the kind of cord you use and how much. The weight, type, or build of the quilt itself is inconsequential in my experience. My 8-nettle quilt needs light/moderate tension. My 13-nettle quilt needs baby-kiss light tension or it starts to feel too tight.

Good luck with your quilt!

[Country Roads]

The arrowhead Jarbridge underquilt uses the 4 corner suspension. It works very well. Keeps the quilt tight. I have actually had to loosen mine because it was a bit too tight, but it did not sag and create cold spots. The quilt that I made uses the hybrid suspension: side channels for primary suspension with line locs and 3/32 shock cord on the 4 corners for secondary suspension. So far, it has worked well, but my quilt is fairly light (3.6 climashield), so not sure how it would work with a much heavier quilt. I have actually converted my UL summer down quilt to the 4 corner suspension just to save weight. An advantage of this system is that when I have the quilt adjusted for a certain hammock, it requires very little tweaking each time, so this makes for a quick set up.

[hutzelbein]

The clew design has the same "hammock inside a hammock" concept but is designed with elastic to fit virtually any GE hammock of any length.

The Wooki design can match any GE just as well - you only need to make the base layer long enough, like this.

It always matches the shape of the hammock. It even hangs like one when empty.

Same as the Wooki:

If you use static lines on a clew quilt and overtighten it by even a little bit, you just put your full body weight in your quilt. Damage will occur. Bad things will happen. Feathers will fly. Basically, elastic covers a multitude of sins

That is also true for the Wooki. That's why one end is connected to the hammock with a rubber band. I have popped it off a couple of times while trying to fit it to a longer hammock and hanging it a bit too tight. How delicate the underquilt is probably depends on the fabric. But seeing that some people are even using single layer hammocks made from Argon 67, I think that most quilts can take more stress than we assume (not that I want to test it...).

In any case, if I would use nonelastic cord for the clews, I would connect one side to the hammock with a rubber band or a shock cord. That should provide just enough stretch. My hope is, that this would address the sliding problem, since the clews won't stretch differently.

The amount of tension you need depends mostly on the kind of cord you use and how much. The weight, type, or build of the quilt itself is inconsequential in my experience. My 8-nettle quilt needs light/moderate tension. My 13-nettle quilt needs baby-kiss light tension or it starts to feel too tight.

I have done it like that, and it decreases the performance of my underquilt dramatically. I'm sure it's fine for the majority of hammock users, but I really do sleep very cold. I have been fighting with my underquilts ever since I bought my first one in 2010. I have spent a lot of time doing research, asking for help and trying every solution I could think of. Below 60° the underquilt has to be pressed into the hammock hard enough to fill even the smallest gaps. Unless there is no differential cut. I wish I would have a normal body temperature...