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  1. #61

    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    St Johns, FL
    Hammock
    WB Eldorado SL
    Suspension
    Dyneema + Becket
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by GatorPaddler View Post
    Go Gators! And my ENO DN is orange and blue. As others have said, I think it's in the middle of the pack in terms of comfort.
    He's loving college and texted me last night to say he just ordered a True Timber Netless in camo from Dutch. I told him he would be surprised at how comfortable it is compared to his ENO based on his height.

  2. #62
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
    Posts
    10,087
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    416
    Quote Originally Posted by MuadDale View Post
    He's loving college and texted me last night to say he just ordered a True Timber Netless in camo from Dutch. I told him he would be surprised at how comfortable it is compared to his ENO based on his height.
    It is good to hear this stuff about these hammocks that don't get much love. I feel the same way about my HHs and Claytors. They are not very popular here, but they have always been just fine for me. Maybe not the absolute best(though close IMO for the Claytor), but still just fine for me. I have definitely had some comfy sleeps in the back country in them. Same for me for the 1st two models of the JRB bridge hammocks: they were never very well liked here, and I understand why(especially for the original and narrowest model, which I still have), but at 6'1" and 200-226 lbs( varies over the year, 203 right now), I have to say I have had some comfy sleeps in both of them, including in the original at the 1st ever HF group hang in the Sipsey Wilderness. In Feb. Where we were shocked to get about 5" of snow in AL! And if you consider my main problem area, leg comfort, they have never been matched(for me) except with other bridge hammocks.

    So there are some hammocks that consistently fail to get much love here, but which I personally find pretty competitive with all the others I have tried. I have not tried an ENO, but I bet I could get a good sleep in it!

  3. #63

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Hammock
    banana-shaped
    Tarp
    greenish
    Insulation
    yes
    Suspension
    disbelief
    Posts
    739
    At least part of the lack of love for ENO is (a) snobbery and (b) envy. The snobbery is in caring or having learned enough about hammocks that you frequent a hammocks forum, you come to feel that your judgment can invalidate the satisfaction many much more casual hammockers feel with their ENOs. You also likely paid more for your setup, so are quick to point out what's missing in cheaper hammocks, to justify your purchase. At the same time, you are aware that there are better AND cheaper hammocks than ENO, so a sense of unfairness arises. Then there's envy, which might not be the right word, that ENO is everywhere. They are the only hammock many people know because they are in stock in so many brick-and-mortar stores, and at under $100 they are an impulse purchase for many, not a research project. The fact that the store needs their cut is part of the "unfair" price if you know what's available online. But mainly, with such awesome distribution, they are not the underdog. They have to be doing pretty well as a business, and when some smaller companies with better products don't even come onto the radar, they are the overdog, and that doesn't inspire a lot of love.
    --
    Tensa Outdoor, LLC, maker of the Tensa4 tensahedron hammock stand, and the Tensa Solo ultralight flavor too.
    http://tensaoutdoor.com/

  4. #64
    Senior Member rweb82's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Homewood, IL
    Hammock
    DH Raven/Darien
    Tarp
    HG Dyneema w/Doors
    Insulation
    Loco Libre
    Suspension
    Myerstech/Becket
    Posts
    1,230
    Quote Originally Posted by Latherdome View Post
    At least part of the lack of love for ENO is (a) snobbery and (b) envy. The snobbery is in caring or having learned enough about hammocks that you frequent a hammocks forum, you come to feel that your judgment can invalidate the satisfaction many much more casual hammockers feel with their ENOs. You also likely paid more for your setup, so are quick to point out what's missing in cheaper hammocks, to justify your purchase. At the same time, you are aware that there are better AND cheaper hammocks than ENO, so a sense of unfairness arises. Then there's envy, which might not be the right word, that ENO is everywhere. They are the only hammock many people know because they are in stock in so many brick-and-mortar stores, and at under $100 they are an impulse purchase for many, not a research project. The fact that the store needs their cut is part of the "unfair" price if you know what's available online. But mainly, with such awesome distribution, they are not the underdog. They have to be doing pretty well as a business, and when some smaller companies with better products don't even come onto the radar, they are the overdog, and that doesn't inspire a lot of love.
    I agree with your sentiments. I would also add that I believe another reason for the "ENO hate" stems from this idea that their hammocks may be giving hammock camping a bad rap. What I mean is that folks may think that hammock camping is not enjoyable because they could not get comfortable in their ENO setups, and subsequently give up. Whereas a hammock enthusiast would argue that if they had a "proper" hammock setup, they would likely be comfortable and not give up on the whole thing.

    I'm not sure if I necessarily agree with this sentiment 100%, because I believe there is a lot more anecdotal evidence showing that folks who start out with ENO, Grand Trunk, etc... tend to ultimately upgrade to cottage vendor gear later. It's pretty rare to find someone whose first hammock is a custom Dream Hammock Sparrow or Dutchware Chameleon. In fact, I would argue that if ENO did NOT exist, most of our cottage vendors would not exist either.

    Now I'm sure that there are folks out there who did give up on hammock camping after trying ENO gear. But I would also argue that the real reason they gave up is because they don't want to have to "tinker" with their camping setup. And let's face it, if you're not a tinkerer, you probably aren't going to be a hammock camper either.

    In the end, I don't really understand all of the ENO hate, because isn't it all about HYOH?

  5. #65
    HandyRandy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Louisiana
    Hammock
    Warbonnet Eldorado (Dream-Tex)
    Tarp
    Thunder/MiniFly
    Insulation
    Wooki, Diamondback
    Suspension
    Dynaweave, Becket
    Posts
    1,327
    Here is what ENO needs to do to get back in the game.
    Add a ridgeline.
    Switch to a buckle suspension system.
    Lengthen the body to 10í.
    Stop putting images of people laying in hammocks in-line like a banana out there.

    Thatís all. Is that too much to ask?

  6. #66
    New Member DocWatson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Merrimack, NH
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by rweb82 View Post
    I'm not sure if I necessarily agree with this sentiment 100%, because I believe there is a lot more anecdotal evidence showing that folks who start out with ENO, Grand Trunk, etc... tend to ultimately upgrade to cottage vendor gear later. It's pretty rare to find someone whose first hammock is a custom Dream Hammock Sparrow or Dutchware Chameleon. In fact, I would argue that if ENO did NOT exist, most of our cottage vendors would not exist either.
    My buddy started with an ENO Doublenest and he now has an Amok. Then he got me to go with him last year and I used his ENO. Now I have my own (a cheap 11' no-name off amazon) and I have gone hammock camping just about every other weekend from late spring to now. Bought my 2nd hammock last week because I ripped my bugnet and found a hammock I liked the looks of on Amazon with a bugnet that was less than most of the decent looking bugnets on Amazon. I'm cheap... er... I mean frugal. ;-) So it may be a while before I go the cottage vendor route, but I agree with you, it it wasn't for ENO my buddy and I may not have been hammockers.

    Here's a pic of my latest $22 hammock, it's much smaller than my 11'er (it's 9.5' x55") but I slept ~12 hours in it last weekend just fine.
    IMG_20190922_093356.jpg

    - Clyde

  7. #67

    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    St Johns, FL
    Hammock
    WB Eldorado SL
    Suspension
    Dyneema + Becket
    Posts
    85
    Latherdome has it right.

    There's also a good portion of humanity who need someone to look down on and feel superior to, over and above a friendly rivalry. You see it everyday, Ford Vs Chevy vs Ram/Dodge, Corvette vs Mustang, iPhone vs Android, Apple vs Microsoft, my sports team vs your sports team, urban vs rural. The list goes on and on, and billions of dollars are made each year by corporations that take advantage of it through advertising. "In group" vs "out group" conflict is really a sight to behold and will be with us as long as there are people.

    There's also a lot of people out there that crave external validation, and a lot of that external validation comes from what they choose to consume, regardless of whether or not a certain name brand is functionally any better than another. They wed themselves to their brands of choice and it becomes part of their identity, which is pitiful and sad if you think about it because consumerism is filling a void in their life that should be taken up by family and community.

    There's a world of difference between "I bought this car because I like it and I had posters of it on my wall as a kid" or whatever and "I bought this car because I like it and just think of the status I get when people see it in my driveway". I go to a lot of car shows and drool over Porsche 911's (that was my poster on the wall car), but I just can't stand to be around a not insignificant portion of their owners, they've bought into their own hype and can be insufferable. On the other hand, I went to a Concours d'elegance once and had a blast talking to the Saab club people even though I wouldn't take a Saab if you paid me to, it's just not my thing. They had fun being the "underdog" group surrounded by cars costing 6 and 7 figures and had weren't taking themselves very seriously, they just liked cars and looked like they were having a lot more fun than all the other clubs present combined.

    Don't become what you consume.
    Last edited by MuadDale; 09-24-2019 at 09:44.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Floridahanger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    SW Volusia, FL
    Hammock
    Diy gathered end/Fronkey bugnet
    Tarp
    UGQ Rect. and HHex
    Insulation
    DIY CDT/synth sets
    Suspension
    Straps/Speed Hooks
    Posts
    4,164
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    10
    For myself, I looked at an ENO hammock at Gander Mountain in 2011. I felt that I could make a similar hammock for less with better material. So I made a test blank out of cotton. I quickly found out that it was too short and made a longer 10' hammock out of Ripstop Nylon from Walmart at $1.50/yard. Also, instead of a structural channel with 3 lines of stitching, I made a non structural smaller chanel with 1 line of stitching. A bit of small cord to cinch it up to a knot and done.

    I say this only because it seems like ENO hammocks haven't changed all that much even after all the advancements in hammock tech. My ENO inspired knockoff is still being used and will use it again this weekend. It's roomier at 10' and doesn't have the seam like the doublenest that would be annoying to me. So....

    ... I don't begrudge any ENO users or even cheerleaders, I know there are better hammocks and also worse. Way more expensive and also cheaper hammocks. Just remember, the best hammock is the one that gets you out into the Piney Woods.... And you don't have to carry someone else's ENO anyways so quit complaining.

    My ENO "inspired" hammock. It also inspired me to MYOG (make your own gear):
    My hammy holding my Costco Down Throw TQ
    IMG_0653.jpg
    My DIY Tarp over my hammy
    IMG_0372 copy.jpg IMG_0154 copy.jpg
    My Fronky style DIY bug net surrounding my hammy
    DSCF0214.jpg DSCF0213.jpg
    Even a hiking pole/fishing rod made out of bamboo
    DSCF0019.jpg
    Enjoy and have fun with your family, before they have fun without you

    My fantastic Photographer wife: http://www.capturedhearts-photography.com

  9. #69
    Member mad_matze's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Hamburg, Germany
    Hammock
    SLD Trail Lair
    Tarp
    SLD .9oz Asym Tarp
    Insulation
    LL Operator Series
    Suspension
    Whoopies
    Posts
    55
    I actually just went back to my ENO SingleNest for my Argentina setup for next January (lowest temps: 40F). The thing is, I do get amazing sleep in there.
    I do have a Hennessy and a 12‘ Trail Lair. But for someone who is backpacking with carry-on luggage only, packsize becomes important quickly. While the hammock itself is not the lightest and smallest in your pack, it seems people often forget that with a bigger hammock you need a bigger tarp to cover you, more netting, maybe a bigger UQP etc.
    So this is how the ENO made it into my pack and the other hammocks didn‘t. My setup weighs 3 lbs now including top quilt, underquilt, asym tarp, hammock and underquilt protector:
    E953993C-6FA9-4118-B558-756C5DCE394D.jpeg

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