Working on a little DIY project part of which will incorporate some Lineloc 3's. Need to decide on line diameter and some vendor web sites say best diameter cord to use is 1.5 to 2.5mm, another says 2mm, and yet another 2.5 to 3mm. Anyone have experience with Lineloc 3's and what cord diameter is working for you?
I use this... https://dutchwaregear.com/reflective-cord.html. It's 2.38mm or 3/32" and it works well. I also use 3/32" shock cord with the LineLoc 3 on the doors of my SLD winter haven.
Thanks Bizzz. Don't know how I missed this on Dutch's site.
Lawson Glowire works very well in 2mmOriginally Posted by drsolarmolar
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There is a substantial reduction in the "pinch groove" on LineLock3s, then it widens. I think you can probably use that full range of lines and still have it grab fine.
>> Onward thru the fog...>>
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These hold with smaller diameter stuff,
https://dutchwaregear.com/slide-lock.html
I get this question all the time via email so I will post a reply here.
First and foremost the Lineloc 3's were designed to work with 3mm cords. As such 3mm cords work the best with them.. This is the only diameter that will break a lineloc 3 (at the webbing cross bar at roughly 120lbs of tension) before slipping. You don't have to do anything special, just pull your line tight and your good to go.
Anything less than 3mm will eventually slip with enough tension without adding a slippery half hitch. But for most conditions you don't need it and most 2-3mm lines will work fine. The more core/stiffer the line the better it will work. Like Triptease slips at around 35lbs. My 2mm glowire slips around 65lbs. This is due to the more solid/fuller core of my line.
That said, an easy fix for smaller diameter lines is a slippery half hitch after you tension your shelter. This allows you to use any diameter cord you want from fishing line all the way up to 3mm lines. And they will not slip either. BUT eventually with enough tension they will cut the cord crossbar. This depends on the line diameter and strength. But my 2mm Glowire cuts the cross bar at a hair over 110lbs with a slippery half hitch. So there is not a huge difference between a 2mm line with a slippery half hitch and a 3mm line with nothing. The buckle is the weak point in both cases. The 3mm line breaks the buckle at the webbing cross bar and the 2mm line cuts the buckle at the cord cross bar. Either way you go they are both destroyed if you pull them to destruction. That said, I don't think there are many shelters out there (especially lightweight ones) that have anchor points that can handle these kind of loads anyway.. Just some food for thought.
So the whole idea of putting spectra/dyneema inside the core of a guyline that is going to be used with a lineloc 3 is pretty stupid. Especially when they put the spectra/dyneema inside a nylon/polyester cover. These are not paraglider lines where no stretch and no creep are needed. They are guy lines where all polyester is more than static enough. Think Zpack Zline, Reflective Dutchwire, Litesmiths Reflx Line, etc. Its retarded. If you tie a knot of any of these lines, the cover will break and the core will slip out. So they might have some crazy break numbers on paper but in actual use they will never even come close to this as the core and the jacket do not work together. Hell they don't even melt together. They get these high break numbers by wrapping the line around a specially designed capstan that is several inches in diameter a bunch of times, putting the tail/end in a clamp and then tensile testing it that way (I own one of these machines). This method is great for engineering lines so you can get consistent break numbers to see what you need to change and how your changes are effecting the lines performace, but its not a good way to show back country field strength. This method of strength is something that no one, nowhere is going to be able to do in a field. Think wrapping a line around a smaller tree 10 times and then pulling on it vs going around a carabiner once and then tieing a knot. That is why my guylines use the same fiber in the core as the jacket so everything works together. In the case of the Glowire this is 100% High Tenacity Polyester. If you knot my line the cover/jacket is not going to prematurely break with the core slipping out. The line breaks as one. This is the difference between lines designed by people that don't make cordage and rope vs someone who does. They want Dyneema/Spectra/Etc in the description and a high on paper break number as they know it sells more line. But unless your not using knots, then you will never see the strength of these lines.
That said, I sell alot of both diameters. People looking to cut weight and bulk buy the 2mm lines and generally use them with lineloc 3's with no issue at all. People who don't want to fuss around and just want to pull their lines tight or people that need the extra strength because they are using their shelters in places most of us dream of going use my 3mm lines. I have heard more people tell me they heard about my lines on Mount Everest than any other geographic location. Its always super cool to hear that..
Oh and PS. My cord on Dutch's website is actually 2.0mm and not 2.38mm like listed. He has had the size listed wrong for years now. My line also does not have a hybrid blend of Nylon, Polyester and Dyneema anymore. It is 100% high tenacity polyester and has been that way for well over 4 years now. It was originally a blend of fibers. It had a Nylon Jacket with a blended Polyester/Dyneema core. This was to get the cover to melt into the jacket and so that when knotting it would break together as one. But I spent months engineering a new/better construction. That was over 4 years ago now, so I think its time for them to update the description.
Best of Luck. Thanks!
Lawson
Last edited by Mountainfitter; 07-29-2017 at 13:55.
Wow! Thanks for that explanation. It's interesting to find out some of the technical aspects of what most of us take for granted.
I just bought some Lawson Reflective Cord from Dutch to use with the Lineloc 3's because it was listed as 2.38mm. I'm disappointed to find out it's only 2mm.
I'll have to checkout your offering in 3mm.
Don't be disappointed... It works very well with the line lock 3s.
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I use both the 2mm and 3mm glowire on my shelters with lineloc 3's. In most conditions the 2mm line does not slip at all, so it should work for you fine. But if you notice any slipping just back the lineloc3 up with a slippery half hitch. Another option are my bar tensioners. They do not slip at all and are extremely easy to use. With my 2mm glowire the bar tensioners will hold to roughly 130lbs before they cut/break the line. And with my 3mm glowire that number jumps up to over 300lbs. In both cases there is no slippage at all until the bar tensioner cuts/breaks the line. And up until line failure, they do not damage the line whatsoever. So they are pretty amazing in that regard. Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks again,
Lawson
Last edited by Mountainfitter; 07-30-2017 at 23:02.
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