Boy Scouts and Hammocks

**swampfox** · 03-30-2009, 18:12

We are lucky to have a troop with a lot of interest in backpacking. Our Scoutmaster made his 7th Philmont trek last year. Last Spring, I started hanging instead of using the standard troop tent. The first time, I was finished setting up while most of them were still looking for a place with no roots or rocks. There were a lot of comments but my favorite was- "That is so cheating!'

**NorseAmerican** · 03-30-2009, 22:37

Originally Posted by dallas

Coffee,

I agree that there is a low probability that they will change the policy, at least in the near term. Do I think they will make a policy change because they get one letter about it? No.

But I have 2 reasons for making the request to them in writing:

1) see if they will elaborate on the reasons for the ban.
2) the more people who make requests, the greater chance that some future generations might benefit.

If the reasons are based on incorrect information about hammocks, at least we can help them get the correct facts. If they reply I will post it here so those who care to can then submit their own request.

Who knows, if I get to go back in 4 years with my younger son, just maybe........

How about ADA angle? I for one have disabilities with my neck and back and cannot sleep on the ground without being cripled the next day. I know a few others here with simular issues.

**cavediver2** · 03-30-2009, 22:55

There are several scouts here that have diy hammocks 2 of them have HH hammocks and 2 have clark NAs
It seems the BSA is starting to except hammocks more each year. Two years in a row I have had mine out
For the BSA jamboree on the air ham radio event and I always get people coming to look at
My hammocks.

**plowhorse** · 03-30-2009, 23:47

both of my sons are cubs, but my oldest will become a webelo this may. I am going to bring my hammock to grad campout, just to test the waters with the pack. my sons love laying in my hammock and have been begging for their own

my nephew has one more year of webelos, and is pretty sheltered, so i am trying to expose him since he looks like he will crossover.

**bigspl1092** · 03-31-2009, 18:55

about 10 or 12 people involved with my troop use hammocks. mostly adults. for the most part we all use hennessy's two guys make their own and i am starting to make my own.

**sk8rs_dad** · 03-31-2009, 22:24

Our council-level event for troop this year is pioneer-themed with patrols scattered across 360 acres of woods. Only a few sites are accessible by car. Those are being used by the camp organizers and service crews. We expect several hundred, possibly a thousand scouts and 3rd year cubs all backpacking. Pretty cool, eh?

**Binford** · 04-01-2009, 22:57

I'm new to the Boy Scouts (my son just crossed over, though I've been with the Cubs for several years now) and new to hammocking. No one in the Troop hangs and my mention of the hammock has not been warmly received, though they're not anti-hammock. Just ignorant.

I was going to hang it at our campout last weekend. Perfect weather to demonstrate the advantages of hammocks over tents in the Pacific Northwest--it was windy, rainy and had been raining all day. Have fun setting up your tents boys. I'll be over here 'tween these trees setting up under my tarp and ignoring all the rocks and roots in the muddy ground below!

Turns out, however, that the 4H Club we were doing trailbuilding at along with the campout had an enclosed pole building with a firepit. So we adult leaders set up our cots instead! (The boys had their own enclosed building in which they pitched their tents.) But I did show the other adult leaders my hammock and I have now piqued their interest. In three weeks we have another campout. I'll be hanging then for sure.

**Binford** · 04-01-2009, 23:11

About this Philmont rule against hammocks... Anyone know their official reason? I've read a lot of speculation in this thread, but saw nothing certain or conclusive about their reasoning. That would be a critical bit of intel to have in order to work for a change in their policy.

I suspect it may have to do with Leave-No-Trace as when I first mentioned it to the Scoutmaster he pointed out that "some" have issues about hammocks' damage to tree bark and thus is not LNT-friendly. I asked if compacting soils, moving rocks and sticks around and such was a better LNT alternative than a hammock with proper tree straps and he just shrugged his shoulders.

Now after reading this thread and learning of the Philmont anti-hammock rule, I wonder if that was the source of his comment, since they had been to Philmont the year before.

Has anyone received an official reason from Philmont as to why hammocks are not allowed?

Edit: A Google search for an answer was unproductive, so I just sent the Philmont staff a polite e-mail inquiring about the reasons behind their no-hammock policy. I'll post up what I learn when I hear back from them.

**Binford** · 04-02-2009, 10:14

Here's their reply:

Reasons Philmont Does Not Allow Hammocks

There are a variety of reasons that we do not allow hammocks at Philmont, some apply in some situations and some apply in others.

· A hammock could be considered a single person tent. We ask that single person tents be used only for the situations needed with odd size crews or separate gender needs.

· Many campsites will not have trees in the camping area that are suitable for a hammock. For bear procedures we want the crew camping in the same general area not in a separate area. We practice a camping format called the “Bearmuda Triangle”. All smellable activities take place in the triangle defined by bear cable, fire ring and sump. Camping is done at least (if possible) 50 feet away from the triangle.

· Hammocks can cause damage to trees. Considering that we will camp 22,000 individuals this summer and the wear and tear on campsites that can occur with that number.

· Hammocks can have challenges in inclement weather.

Thank you for your understanding of our no-hammock policy.

Sounds like they have some legitimate reasons for wanting campsites set up in a specific format and, while it is certainly possible for this format to be maintained with some scouts in hammocks, it is likely easier for the Philmont staff to simply deny the use of hammocks than to police their use.

Tree wear could be studied (has anyone here already done so?) and results prepared to eliminate that concern.

I about spit my coffee out when I read their concerns about "issues" hammocks have in inclement weather! I've been in plenty of tents in inclement weather. I've also been in a hammock in cold, windy rain. I don't need to tell this group which method worked better for me!

The real issue is likely to be their policy on two scouts to a tent. As a new Scout adult leader, if they have information about why it's important to have two Scouts to a tent in bear country, I'd like to learn more about it as we've got bears where our Scouts camp as well. I'll approach them about it that way.

It'll be a few years before I'd be taking a Scout group to Philmont. Perhaps we can cause a change in their policy in that time....

**Cannibal** · 04-02-2009, 10:22

Agreed, the issue on two scouts to a tent seems valid. But, it's probably more about the effort required to make a change. Nobody wants to take the time to address something that they do not perceive to be an issue. Momentum will gain and eventually they'll change, but it's gonna be a while is my bet.