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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Now they make them in China so they used lead thread a webbing made from human wastes.
    Lead thread is great, but I worry about the weight penalty.
    .. truly to enjoy bodily warmth, some small part of you must be cold, for there is no quality in this world that is not what it is merely by contrast. Nothing exists in itself. If you flatter yourself that you are all over comfortable, and have been so a long time, then you cannot be said to be comfortable any more. - Herman Melville

  2. #12
    Senior Member Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    There are points to be made for destructive testing particularly when you are producing a commercial product. My question is... is the "strongest" _required_ for most DIY use. I've used both styles and never had either one fail except for discernible cause. (crappy thread or bad stitches) Not sure even the double box would survive those problems.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
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  3. #13
    in it for the naps oldgringo's Avatar
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    The X boxes were all I remember seeing on our parachute harnesses.
    Dave

    http://www.uark.edu/misc/xtimber/rna/pattonsbluff.html

    It has always been my private conviction that any man who pits his intelligence against a fish and loses has it coming.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Albert Skye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    My wife was the quality manager for Graco Children's products and they did destructive tests on different stitching of the webbing used on high chairs. The X with a box around it was the strongest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frawg View Post
    Backpackinglight.com also did some testing on webbing stitched to lightweight fabric, with the X box coming out the strongest.
    Quote Originally Posted by oldgringo View Post
    The X boxes were all I remember seeing on our parachute harnesses.
    I suspect bar tacks and the boxed X may be popular because they're easy and they look more uniform.

    I'm operating under the assumption (without having performed my own tests) that longitudinal stitching is strongest (as described in this post). It seems logical to me (and I'm also inclined to trust the Nylon Highway people). I've also noticed that industrial slings often employ longitudinal stitching.

    I'd like to know more about these conflicting tests if anyone can provide more detail.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Skye View Post
    I suspect bar tacks and the boxed X may be popular because they're easy and they look more uniform.
    You're probably right. The destructive testing I referred to on backpackinglight.com addressed webbing connected to fabric , e.g., tarp tieouts. IIRC, box outperformed bar tack there, with failure occurring in the fabric. Probably not pertinent to webbing loops in general, though.

    ... longitudinal stitching is strongest (as described in this post).
    I missed that first time around-- good article; thanks for reposting it.

    I guess the good news, for me at least, is that even the weakest method, with weaker thread, held 1000 lbs.
    - Frawg

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  6. #16
    Senior Member Albert Skye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frawg View Post
    The destructive testing I referred to on backpackinglight.com addressed webbing connected to fabric , e.g., tarp tieouts. [...] even the weakest method, with weaker thread, held 1000 lbs.
    Thanks for clarifiying, though I see you did write "webbing stitched to lightweight fabric" (didn't register on my first pass).

    And thanks for the number; more?

  7. #17
    Senior Member Frawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Skye View Post
    Thanks for clarifiying, though I see you did write "webbing stitched to lightweight fabric" (didn't register on my first pass).

    And thanks for the number; more?
    That number was actually from the first chart on your reference... I'm sure the fabric / webbing interface couldn't withstand that kind of force. As I look back on the article, it was only a comparative test of box vs bar tack anyway. Your source looks much more worthwhile.
    - Frawg

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  8. #18
    Senior Member nacra533's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Skye View Post
    I suspect bar tacks and the boxed X may be popular because they're easy and they look more uniform.

    I'm operating under the assumption (without having performed my own tests) that longitudinal stitching is strongest (as described in this post). It seems logical to me (and I'm also inclined to trust the Nylon Highway people). I've also noticed that industrial slings often employ longitudinal stitching.

    I'd like to know more about these conflicting tests if anyone can provide more detail.
    Unfortunately, I can not provide detail becasue I heard this second hand. A local sling maker who makes everything from walmart style tiedown straps to XTRA heavy duty slings for the granite industry was telling some of my employees about his slings. What they took away from it was sometimes you want your stictching to stretch a little and sometimes you don't. I assume type of loading (static, shock, or the potential for shock loading) comes into play. Depending on application, the type of thread and type of stitch changes. Possibly why we see different stitches and conflicting studies.

    Looking at the Nylon Hwy link, I think I know why the box X faired so poorly. We don't use nylon for straps because of STRETTCCHH. A stitch in line with the stretch will move with it. A stitch perpendicular to it will not. The box X is fighting the stretch of the strap in 4 of it's 6 stitches. Even the zig zag box has 2 of the zig zag fighting the stretch and it falls next lowest. In tubular nylon, when load is applied, does it try to get more "round" / the tube open up??? Some industrial slings have some stitches in red and cover stitches over over the tops of the red thread. When you overload the sling, the cover stitches break and reveal the red thread=send it off for repair. See pg 13 on the link.

    I use a box X mostly, rarely with a line or double line of bar tacks.
    Last edited by nacra533; 02-08-2010 at 21:13.

  9. #19
    Senior Member stevebo's Avatar
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    Great post! One thing Ive run into is sometimes if the stitch across the webbing doesnt go all the way to the edge, the whole thing tends to seperate when a load is placed on it. So, sometimes I handstitch the end of the stitch with a real heavy duty thread--like upholstery thread.---Just in case the machine sewn stitch starts to seperate.
    FYI: If you want to know what type a certain bear is, sneak up behind it and kick it. Then,
    run like crazy and climb up a tree. If the bear climbs the tree and eats you, it's a black
    bear. If the bear just pushes the tree over and eats you, it's a grizzly bear : )


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  10. #20
    Old Gorge Rat Hawk-eye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgringo View Post
    The X boxes were all I remember seeing on our parachute harnesses.
    Kinda of my way of thinking too ... so far it's not put me in the dirt

    WARNING: Will discuss Rhurbarb Strawberry Pie and Livermush at random.


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