Tell Me Your Secrets to Winter Moisture Management

[OneClick]

Don't underestimate insensible perspiration.
(And keep your breath moisture off your gear too - thru breeze)

Here's a good example of perspiration. I wasn't under or over-insulated. Just a nice comfortable night. I had my 0° TQ/UQ set, capilene 2 base layer, wool socks and a wool cap. I had a frost bib over my face which seemed to catch all of the breath. But the heat and moisture coming off my body hit that -1° (about 6° to start) and accumulated all night. I checked the forecast and saw calm-2mph wind, so I knew I was in for this before going to bed. I put up in porch mode after seeing that, but without any breeze it wasn't much help. Here's one part of my hammock past the UQ. It was like this in about 5 areas top and bottom. A frosty night!



I think it's good to have an expendable item to use to dry/knock off frost if you're willing to spend another minute during a mid-night pee break. I used an extra balaclava to sort of smack the frost off my hammock and brush it off my TQ. Not necessary especially since it was frozen, but it just sort of freaks me out to see so much. I notice it more now with a black hammock.

[fallkniven]

I may give it a try. For the VB socks during the day I've got that down to a science. But the whole body in a VB overnight, I'll need to get used to that in the morning. Getting out into the cold with a clammy body...I'm guessing there's no trick to that? Just suck it up and throw warm clothes on quick?

Another option is VB clothing. If your wearing VB socks, pants, and shirt, then you wont need the quilt liner, its much easier to sleep in, and getting out you stay a little warmer longer. Also, when wearing VB clothing, your body doesn't sweat as much as you think you will (unless it's too warm out for it. Your body recognizes the humid little micro climate and doesn't continue to pump out sweat until your soaked inside. Again, this is all in those frigid temps they were made for, if your wearing VB clothing hiking in 35* yeah you'll be sweaty.

Also, keeping your clothes in your quilt with youhelps too. It's really nice putting on warm clothes in the morning instead of freezing ones.

[kitsapcowboy]

I can't speak to socks and topcovers in subzero temperatures, but from my observations during many winter nights outside between 20F and 32F with moderate to high humidity -- or what passes for "bad" winter conditions blow 1000' elevation on the Kitsap and Olympic Peninsulae -- I can offer the following:

1) Having a vent near my face drastically reduces my likelihood of any significant condensation inside my sock/top cover, since respiration rather than perspiration tends for me to be the primary source of moisture inside my shelter system. I've had the most notable condensation issues inside my fully zipped Warbonnet Blackbird XLC (1st gen) in 1.9 oz Multicam ripstop nylon, which has no vents, while I've had virtually no significant condensation issues using DIY socks and top covers that use a mesh vent of some kind. I find if I unzip the cover on the XLC in front of my face below the freezing mark, I still get the thermal benefit of the warm air pocket the top cover provides, but it's easier for any moisture from my breath to exhaust to the exterior during the night.

2) In colder weather, especially if condensation issues tend to be a significant problem for you, it pays NOT to push the temperature ratings of your quilts when using a top cover or a sock. By recording some hard data from temperatures inside and outside my hammock socks/full-enclosure top covers, I have noticed that the thermocline, i.e., interior temperature increase, measurable when using a sock or top cover tends to be greater when the ambient temperature outside is closer to the temperature rating on the quilt; the air inside the sock/cover will generally get warmer if you use a 40F quilt on a 40F night than it will if you use a 20F quilt on a 40F night -- which makes sense given that you are the source of heat input for your shelter system, and if your quilt is trapping more of your body heat through the night, less heat is escaping into the interior of the hammock sock/cover to warm that air pocket. Thus, notable condensation issues are often more likely when these thermoclines inside the sock/cover are greater, as the moisture inside the warm interior makes contact with the significantly cooler fabric enclosing the hammock. If the cold-weather conditions to promote condensation are likely to be present, get as much insulation as you can from a proper quilt and then augment your comfort and thermal performance with the sock/cover.

3) Everyone is different metabolically. These sorts of variables are significant but often overlooked, so you will read a lot of opinions from fervent supporters and.or detractors of hammock socks and top covers, but the lack of consensus only supports the idea that there are few (if any) one-size-fits-all solutions in hammock camping; its better to have a firm understanding of the issues and a toolkit of practical solutions that can be tailored to one's personal camping style, as we all have individual priorities and prferences as well. For example, in cold temperatures I really don't sweat much when sleeping at night, even when really bundled up with extra layers. (Even in warmer weather when sleeping on pads or other nonpermeable surfaces, perspiration is rarely an issue.) However, I know other hammock campers who have significant problems with moisture from both respiration and perspiration in similar -- or even less adverse -- conditions. Observe, experiment, and get to know your gear and your own metabolism.

4) Even when you have your full-enclosure system dialed in and properly vented to accommodate your metabolic processes, the environment can still have the last laugh. I had my worst bout with top cover condensation on a 31-degree night with very dense ground fog in my Warbonnet Blackbird XLC; the ambient air was so heavy with moisture that water droplets were forming on solid surface during the night, and by morning as much moisture was seeping through my topcover from the outside as had collected on the inside...



HTH...

[OneClick]

Wow! I don't think I could ever use a sock or cover. Never tried it, but I envision that photo above every time I think about them. Just based on my wet/frosty tarp which is a good 3' above me if nothing else.

[kitsapcowboy]

Wow! I don't think I could ever use a sock or cover. Never tried it, but I envision that photo above every time I think about them. Just based on my wet/frosty tarp which is a good 3' above me if nothing else.

As I said, everyone is different and to each his own. I am a big fan of socks and (especially) integrated top covers; properly designed, full-enclosure solutions are useful and comfortable for a lot of campers. I always feel very snug and secure when I bed down for the night in my DIY...

[GadgetUK437]

I always feel very snug and secure when I bed down for the night in my DIY...

Not sure how a layer of ripstop contributes to your security?! LoL
Human psychology is a fascinating thing.


--
Gadget

[bkrgi]

Here's a good example of perspiration. I wasn't under or over-insulated. Just a nice comfortable night. I had my 0° TQ/UQ set, capilene 2 base layer, wool socks and a wool cap. I had a frost bib over my face which seemed to catch all of the breath. But the heat and moisture coming off my body hit that -1° (about 6° to start) and accumulated all night. I checked the forecast and saw calm-2mph wind, so I knew I was in for this before going to bed. I put up in porch mode after seeing that, but without any breeze it wasn't much help. Here's one part of my hammock past the UQ. It was like this in about 5 areas top and bottom. A frosty night!



I think it's good to have an expendable item to use to dry/knock off frost if you're willing to spend another minute during a mid-night pee break. I used an extra balaclava to sort of smack the frost off my hammock and brush it off my TQ. Not necessary especially since it was frozen, but it just sort of freaks me out to see so much. I notice it more now with a black hammock.

There is no escape...this is reality. Dry by day or brush off the frost and keep going. As long as your body is pumping heat the moisture will be driven to the outer layer as said...not really a issue short term but long term plan for some drying time.
Big thing cold camping and no hot tent is manage your breath as oneclick has that down pretty darn good..but each has to find their own way on this.

[kitsapcowboy]

Not sure how a layer of ripstop contributes to your security?

Wind
Rain
Leaf litter
Bird droppings
Miscellaneous arthropods
My own clumsiness when it comes to knocking stuff out of my hammock

(Not to mention the positive thermocline and relative degree of privacy it affords me)

The list goes on, but, once again, to each his own, G.

[DGrav]

DGrav, that's interesting.

I can't see how/why that would prevent the humidity from leaving the mask with your breath. The water you expel has to go somewhere....where does it go? If it's not on the outside, it would be on the inside of the mask, right? If it's on the outside of the mask, it would be on the quilts or other gear, right? What am I missing?

The claim on the site is:"ColdAvenger face masks work by creating a micro-climate in front of your nose and mouth. A portion of each exhaled breath is retained in the ventilator cup and passively humidifies the next inhaled breath. The ventilator also manages extra moisture away from skin and allows for 100% free breathing where other masks eventually freeze up."

From experience it works pretty good, no moisture on my quilt and I do not get a soar throat from breathing in dry cold air.

[OneClick]

DGrav, that's interesting.

I can't see how/why that would prevent the humidity from leaving the mask with your breath. The water you expel has to go somewhere....where does it go? If it's not on the outside, it would be on the inside of the mask, right? If it's on the outside of the mask, it would be on the quilts or other gear, right? What am I missing?

There are 5 drain holes on the bottom last time I checked. Yes, the moisture has to go somewhere unfortunately.