Extending cold weather abilities

[stryder]

So we love camping in the winter. Last year we replaced our 0F synthetic (read bulky, heavy) with 10F down Top Quilts. Our Under Quilts are 3 season Jarbidges, rated to 20F (but used comfortably below that). We use Dutch's 'Summer' Sock as a wind break and hang under a Superfly. We've taken this down to teens and maybe 10F and have been comfortable.

I have not been out this year because I have been seeing 0F and that is well under our buffer but I think we can get there. Here are a few ideas. Please add what I miss and share your experience. FYI all of this includes sleeping with hot water bottle, base layer and fleece over-layer, hat and head gaiter (covers neck and face). And a hot bowl of oatmeal before turning in. And we are pretty adept at picking a site out of prevailing winds and cold spots.

• Could pack in the 0F mummies and use them with all of the above
• An overstuffed 0F full length UQ, but winter may be over before that happens.
• Maybe double up the 3 season Jarbidges, possibly offsetting them to get full coverage.
• I have a breathable SOL reflective bivvy. No reason to leave that in the pack.
• The Snugpak cocoon intrigues me. I wonder if with the 20F UQ and 10F TQ I would get below zero with that.
• I have 40F rectangular sleeping bags that I could make an open topped sleeve out of
• I have Klymit inflatable insulated pads. Could use those but last time it was tough to keep in position.

Thank you!

[steveflinn]

The SOL Bivy is different than the SOL Escape. You may already know this; many "experts" made their mind up about the Escape without trying it out and they do themselves and their customers a disservice by selling the Bivy as anything other than VBL. We don't need to name and names here (*cough cough GG*).

The Escape is the breathable one; it's silvered inside of sort of a perforated Tyvek. It adds somewhere in the +15-25F range for me inside of down and works as my standalone summer bag in coastal redwoods). I would consider that a fine half-pound addition to your setup.

But if you are able to double up the Jarbidges, there's probably your best answer. [as always, testing in your backyard is a smart move]

[stryder]

breathable one

Yes, it is the breathable escape one I have. I have been impressed with it. Thank you.

[BillyBob58]

So we love camping in the winter. Last year we replaced our 0F synthetic (read bulky, heavy) with 10F down Top Quilts. Our Under Quilts are 3 season Jarbidges, rated to 20F (but used comfortably below that). We use Dutch's 'Summer' Sock as a wind break and hang under a Superfly. We've taken this down to teens and maybe 10F and have been comfortable.

I have not been out this year because I have been seeing 0F and that is well under our buffer but I think we can get there. Here are a few ideas. Please add what I miss and share your experience. FYI all of this includes sleeping with hot water bottle, base layer and fleece over-layer, hat and head gaiter (covers neck and face). And a hot bowl of oatmeal before turning in. And we are pretty adept at picking a site out of prevailing winds and cold spots.

• Could pack in the 0F mummies and use them with all of the above
• An overstuffed 0F full length UQ, but winter may be over before that happens.
• Maybe double up the 3 season Jarbidges, possibly offsetting them to get full coverage.
• I have a breathable SOL reflective bivvy. No reason to leave that in the pack.
• The Snugpak cocoon intrigues me. I wonder if with the 20F UQ and 10F TQ I would get below zero with that.
• I have 40F rectangular sleeping bags that I could make an open topped sleeve out of
• I have Klymit inflatable insulated pads. Could use those but last time it was tough to keep in position.

Thank you!

Hi Stryder,
Several interesting questions! In my experience, it is very easy indeed to greatly extend the range of whatever system it is a person is using.
1: Easiest method of all, but one that remains unpopular with most: Learn correct vapor barrier(VB) theory from Warmlite dot com(WL) or from Andrew Skurka, and add VB clothing as a first layer(or even just a space blanket(SB) or VB layer between hammock and UQ, as the HH Super Shelter uses(HHSS)).

For me, this adds easily 15-20F to a temp rating, by ending all evaporative cooling, plus adds the invaluable benefit of maintaining a temp rating by ending any dew point caused condensation within the layers of insulation as the night goes on, or even more important as the days go on during a multiday trip. This is powerfully effective technique, even if it did lead to some discomfort as most think going non-breathable will do, that would still be better than getting cold when you can not bail out to the house . But for me, there actually no added discomfort unless actually overheating and sweating, normally during exercise. The "Fuzzy stuff" liner in the 8 oz WL VB shirt has allowed me to sit comfortably in my recliner for 2+ hours, or sleep all night in cold temps beyond the rating of my insulation, without being at all aware of clamminess or moisture. The only real exception to that was one night at 6F in my HHSS, wearing VB socks/wool socks and old Polarguard insulated booties, after about an hour I was aware that my very warm feet were sweating. But I was too lazy to deal with it by removing a layer, so I just ignored it and slept toasty warm. When I removed the socks the next morning, my skin and VB socks were a bit damp, but quickly dried. My legs, torso and all other gear were bone dry, as was all my insulation and the inside of my HHSS"sock" which included the over cover. I was shocked to have zero condensation inside/under that over cover, I was expecting a lot. Probably the use of a Shug style frost bib(which was indeed very damp), and the VB clothing, kept it dry inside. https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...-VBs-and-HHSSs

2: Get inside and zip up a hooded mummy bag with neck collar. Or almost as good for me, use a true sleeping bag style hood(such a JRB hood for example) with your TQs. I think many way underestimate how much of a mummy bag's temp rating is achieved by it's draft proof construction which is greatly helped with a collar that seals around the neck and shoulders PLUS several inches of insulation all around your head and face. The effectiveness of insulating this area as much as your torso is major. During my early days of quilt use, before I became more skilled at using TQs/UQs I converted many a cold hammock night into instant warmth when I gave up and zipped up inside a hooded mummy bag, putting up with the comfort issues of a bag in a hammock. But I was all quilts by the 1st ever HF Sipsey Wilderness (AL) group backpack/hang about Feb 09, I was using a JRB MW4 UQ under my JRB bridge, a combo I had previously kept very warm in at 10F. But I was using less top insulation than on previous tests, a 25-30 rated Golite TQ, plus my usual warm clothing with fleece hat and jacket hood. It was only 27F(but very wet/humid/snowing), but I was shocked to realize when I got up to pee about 2 or 3AM, that I was just a bit chilly overall, apparently just on top. Definitely not as warm as I would like to be for a comfy nights sleep. Then I remembered that I had a Marmot sleeping bag hood in my pack. I put that on, and within maybe 15 minutes I was toasty warm, and slept that way until time to get up. Keep in mind, I already had on a fleece hat and jacket hood. But adding that thick hood alone took me from a bit too cool to very warm. It makes a big difference.

3: Though I find JRB bridge hammocks generally easier and more fool proof to insulate(with either pads or UQs) than gathered ends(GE) I discovered years ago that the GEs do have one stout advantage for winter use. This advantage is, like VBs, rarely used or even discussed, but the highly esteemed(deservedly so) Shug has proven how bomb proof the approach is with several videos. Even to -40F. And that advantage is the ability to use a PeaPod/PolarPod or even home made pod, like Shug does. The pod approach adds most of the draft proof benefits of zipping up in a mummy bag, while maintaining all of the comfort of the TQ/UQ system.(Even more IMO, as I can sleep in positions that would be begging for a draft with any other system, and I don't usually need near as much on my head or face)

In the commercial systems offered by Speer/TreetoTreeGear (TTTG), it is just a big old bag, tapered at both ends, designed to engulf the entire hammock, draping over the sides and cinching over the ends. While it has it's own minor issues that must be learned and dealt with, I found it basically bomb proof. Mainly because it was the only system that could approach the draft proofing of a mummy bag with consistency. Surprisingly, it only weighs about the same as 2 full length, long quilts(1 TQ + 1 UQ) of similar temp rating.

Or watch Shug's videos on how to rig up a pod using whatever you have left over from ground days. For example, do you have a summer weight sleeping bag, hopefully long and wide(does not have to be mummy style)? (the longer and wider the better). Then just sew a bit of shockcord on the ends like a quilt suspension and wrap the bag around your entire hammock, and adjust the suspension so that, with someone in the hammock and the bag zipped up, the bottom inside of the bag just barely touches the bottom of your UQ. Whatever weight of UQ/TQ you are using, if your bag is rated at say 40F, I am betting that adding it as a pod will boost your systems rating by 30*F or more. I'm betting it will work better than trying to layer other quilts of a similar rating, because you will be adding a lot of draft resistance. Of course, you must adjust it so it is not so tight as to compress your UQ or at least minimally so. And there will- depending on the width/depth of your hammock( I prefer the more narrow such as Claytor or Switchback(TTTG) for this)- and size of the bag and how tight you have the bag adjusted- a gap on top, which should be filled by your TQ giving you the total loft of TQ+bag. I have proven for myself(with an actual Speer PeaPod) that this works without fail for me. But Shug has proved it on many videos. Most folks can use what they have handy, and believe me, it works! Here is just one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_R5yH0rNMw

Good luck, and if you try any of the above, let us know how it did for you!

EDIT: after all of that, I forgot one of the basics: a pad. A torso pad, a leg/foot pad, or both(might be easier to stay on and adjust as needed if in in 2 separate sections. To an UQ, or used alone, a thin pad (which is also a VB) can add 10F, a thicker one can add 50F, tough obviously no help on top. I personally feel the condensation issues that many complain about would be minimized if the pad is inside the UQ or hammock. Because condensation occurs when vapor meets cold, and the pad would not be near as cold if an UQ is around it. Light pads- or added insulated clothing, worked GREAT inside a PeaPod, adding insulation, and I never saw a drop of condensation, but I have never tried that with my UQs, probably trickier. But I have a friend who used to take his 50(?)F PeaPod to the Wind River Mountains(lows in the 20s), with a pad down in the pod under the hammock, and a light TQ on top. He was always toasty and had no condensation issues.

Bill

[OneClick]

2: Get inside and zip up a hooded mummy bag with neck collar. Or almost as good for me, use a true sleeping bag style hood(such a JRB hood for example) with your TQs. I think many way underestimate how much of a mummy bag's temp rating is achieved by it's draft proof construction which is greatly helped with a collar that seals around the neck and shoulders PLUS several inches of insulation all around your head and face.

For that reason, this is the time of year I miss my sleeping bag. But I'm stubborn and continue to use my TQ. All the accessories, hats, buffs, hoods etc. are no substitute IMO.