I may be done with my Chameleon Top cover...

[warbonnetguy]

We can make some more general statements like for me individually, in the places I camp 90% of the time, at temps above 40°F... I will have no problem with the Chameleon top cover on my hammock. Two very big parts of this statement that will change the outcome for another hanger would be; someone else's personal moisture output and the places they camp. They will contribute as much if not more than outside temp and humidity to the outcome.

I think temp and humidity are the 2 biggest factors involved. Certainly some people will put off more moisture than others and that has a signifigant effect also, but that isn't something that is easily measured unfortunately. The amount of draft being pulled through the system is also one of the biggest factors involved, if you can pull air through fast enough it can be avoided or minimized at least down to lower temps than what many experience. I thought it was worth mentioning because many people often report issues with excessive frozen condensation inside topcovers and socks just below freezing, and that is because of the relatively high humidity many folks find themselves in especially in the eastern part of the country. I would say that minimal frost at 25deg/80% humidity is better than what most are reporting with socks/topcovers in the mid 20's from what I have read. We messed around with the vent design quite a bit and found the current configuration to make quite a difference vs other options we tried.

[kitsapcowboy]

...We messed around with the vent design quite a bit and found the current configuration to make quite a difference vs other options we tried.

How many square inches is the mesh vent on the next-generation XLC top cover?

By the way, I checked out the photos and video of the new XLC hammock system, and I am absolutely impressed. The zippered sock (top cover + UQP) is a work of art.

I really admire the way you continue to innovate with a product that was already a landmark design in the first place.

[rais'n hammock]

We messed around with the vent design quite a bit and found the current configuration to make quite a difference vs other options we tried.

This is a complex and interesting challenge. I do not have any experience with Warbonnet products so I cannot compare. My experience has been with DIY options, a prototype system I did some testing with and now the Chameleon. All have had similar results and their own challenges with moisture and frost. When considering the Chameleon top cover I was concerned I would have issue with the frost/moisture inside but was assured that it was not a problem (at least one that was reported to Dutchware). When I see results like I did I have to wonder why my experience was so different from what I was told I could expect so I post to see how others deal with it. It sounds like it happens and many choose not to use a top cover in these conditions which is what I will be doing.

I am glad that you have done some experiments and testing to try and minimize the condensation through design adjustments. I do not have any experience with Warbonnet products so I cannot compare. Maybe someday I will have a chance.
My comments were to point out the many variables to the problem. Some are controllable while many are not. The amount of ventalation in the system is also a large factor. If you have enough in your system, the statement of "mid teens and 80% humidity" may be just fine regardless of most other variables.

[Mj_browne]

Not to revive an old thread, but just doing some tinkering with my gear today. This is just an idea, but what if you run the top cover UNDER the ridgeline instead of over it so the top cover rests directly on top of the top quilt and only zipped from the foot end so you could zip it up to about your chest, and tuck back the rest? That would make the top cover act almost like a zippered blanket or overquilt protector, blocking the wind. Also, since you would only zip up to your chest and fold back the rest, your face would not be under the top cover hence your breath would not get inside the cover. AND the top cover when used like this would keep your breath off of your top quilt too.

If anyone has done this and found it to work well or not, let me know. I'm going to try this when I get out into the woods in a couple weeks.

[rweb82]

Not to revive an old thread, but just doing some tinkering with my gear today. This is just an idea, but what if you run the top cover UNDER the ridgeline instead of over it so the top cover rests directly on top of the top quilt and only zipped from the foot end so you could zip it up to about your chest, and tuck back the rest? That would make the top cover act almost like a zippered blanket or overquilt protector, blocking the wind. Also, since you would only zip up to your chest and fold back the rest, your face would not be under the top cover hence your breath would not get inside the cover. AND the top cover when used like this would keep your breath off of your top quilt too.

If anyone has done this and found it to work well or not, let me know. I'm going to try this when I get out into the woods in a couple weeks.

I don't see why that wouldn't work. I am definitely interested in hearing your thoughts after you've tried it. It's funny, I purchased a top cover for my DH Raven a couple years back, but have never actually used it. I think I liked the idea of a top cover; but in actuality, I am such a warm sleeper that I prefer having airflow and just sleeping with no cover at all when it's cold. I do use a beanie + balaclava for my head and face though.

[sideshowraheem]

What a timely and excellent thread to read through.

After seeing that video of shugs frost bib I think I am going to make one myself. I think I could rig up something that would work pretty well with some velcro strips and a carabiner.

[Mj_browne]

What a timely and excellent thread to read through.

After seeing that video of shugs frost bib I think I am going to make one myself. I think I could rig up something that would work pretty well with some velcro strips and a carabiner.

I thought about doing that too! Would be really interesting to see how a frost bib that could attach to the top cover walls and completely block off the rest of the hammock would perform. I imagine that one reason the breathilizer doesn't always work.

I saw on one of Shug's recent videos that Danny over at Superior Gear sent him a protoype top quilt that zips onto the hammock, that's actually where I got this idea from.

We already have and love the underquilt protector, why not make an overquilt protector too??

[Mj_browne]

Rweb82, I'll be sure to post about the results!!

[infrastellar]

Not always the frost comes from your breath. I have many times slept right in the freezing cloud, and you get frost everywhere. The tarp is literally a piece of ice. And that is the time, I would very much prefer the frost to be on my topcover, than on my quilt, hammock. Yes, the ice is falling from above, but can be removed easy way. Did not use any topcover last winter, I just used my UQP and covered myself and topquilt with it. Solved.

However, I would use the topcover much more like instead of the tarp in windy conditions. Frost or no frost. I hate the sound of the tarp in a strong wind.

[Hang Williams]

Not to revive an old thread, but just doing some tinkering with my gear today. This is just an idea, but what if you run the top cover UNDER the ridgeline instead of over it so the top cover rests directly on top of the top quilt and only zipped from the foot end so you could zip it up to about your chest, and tuck back the rest? That would make the top cover act almost like a zippered blanket or overquilt protector, blocking the wind. Also, since you would only zip up to your chest and fold back the rest, your face would not be under the top cover hence your breath would not get inside the cover. AND the top cover when used like this would keep your breath off of your top quilt too.

If anyone has done this and found it to work well or not, let me know. I'm going to try this when I get out into the woods in a couple weeks.

Would this result in condensation (from moisture leaving via skin) right up against the TQ?