Tarp Tie outs: Reflect it VS Zing it. Need help

[Grumpy Squatch]

i recently had some strong winds on a trip last weekend
it pulled apart one ring on my superfly tarp ridge-line tie out
and blew apart both rings on the tato stand
brandon (warbonet) said they give way at about 100/110 psi
i use lash it for the tie outs and ridgeline
i am considering putting rings on all my tie outs as id rather the ring pull loose then to rip the tarp

I guess I have two thoughts:

1. If you want a breakable link in the system, rings will work, but once they fail you're stuck. If the cord itself is the weaker link, there are no spares needed, no parts to lose, and the whole system is lighter.
2. I can understand that kind of tension on a ridgeline since it runs parallel to the broad face of the tarp which catches the wind, and is usually strung at no angle (mostly horizontal). Lots of tension there so I use Zing-It or Reflect-It too (usually on Stingerz). But on a side tie-out, the cord is run at an angle to the stake and usually perpendicular to the main wind load so I cannot imagine anything putting 100 or more pounds on a side tie-out other than a taut line tied to a sturdy object like a tree or rock and then kicked hard as someone trips on it. In that case I'd like to think my cord will break before I start ripping the tarp.

I always carry extra lengths of cord so if wind ever got so bad that I thought my 100 lb. micro-cord was in jeopardy I could always double the lines. Frankly, in 25+ years of camping all across Wyoning, Colorado, Utah, Zambia, South Africa, Botswana, British Columbia, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Vermont, Massachusetts, and New Hampshire I've never encountered winds like that, even in thunderstorms. Maybe I'm just lucky.

[rais'n hammock]

1. If you want a breakable link in the system, rings will work, but once they fail you're stuck. If the cord itself is the weaker link, there are no spares needed, no parts to lose, and the whole system is lighter.

If you have rings on the tarp they are probably attached to the tarp with a grossgrain loop. If the ring breaks you would have a loop to the to. I don't use rings, just the loops. If a loop breaks I can use a rock in the tarp corner or a sheet bend as a temp fix until I get home to repair it.

2. I can understand that kind of tension on a ridgeline since it runs parallel to the broad face of the tarp which catches the wind, and is usually strung at no angle (mostly horizontal). Lots of tension there so I use Zing-It or Reflect-It too (usually on Stingerz). But on a side tie-out, the cord is run at an angle to the stake and usually perpendicular to the main wind load so I cannot imagine anything putting 100 or more pounds on a side tie-out other than a taut line tied to a sturdy object like a tree or rock and then kicked hard as someone trips on it. In that case I'd like to think my cord will break before I start ripping the tarp.[/LIST]

Ridgelines can see way more tension. A couple of trees with a taught line between them still move independent of each other. The wind will blow a tree and the trunks sway. If they sway in the opposite direction the line will get even tighter. Depending on how much movement occurs even Zing-it could break. At least in my case as I use a CRL. If not CRL then the tarp is in jeopardy of failing.

[mrcheviot]

For those using micro cord for tie outs, what type of tensioner are you using? Some type of hitch or hardware?

I've become a big fan of the glow in the dark triangle line-locs attached to a small shockcord loop (which attaches to the tarp). They seem to work with some 1.3mm cord I have, but the bite of the cleat isn't quite as secure as it is using zing-it.

[MikekiM]

i recently had some strong winds on a trip last weekend
it pulled apart one ring on my superfly tarp ridge-line tie out
and blew apart both rings on the tato stand
brandon (warbonet) said they give way at about 100/110 psi
i use lash it for the tie outs and ridgeline
i am considering putting rings on all my tie outs as id rather the ring pull loose then to rip the tarp

I've been contemplating split rings at all the ground corners rather than the heave tri-rings or beastie-d's.. I would rather a split ring let go. The tri-rings and beasties would never give in before a corner of the tarp would.

For those using micro cord for tie outs, what type of tensioner are you using? Some type of hitch or hardware?

I've become a big fan of the glow in the dark triangle line-locs attached to a small shockcord loop (which attaches to the tarp). They seem to work with some 1.3mm cord I have, but the bite of the cleat isn't quite as secure as it is using zing-it.

I'd be interested in the knowing as well..

I am using either mini-ucrs or tarp worms and doubt either would work well with micro cord. The ucr's would slip and the tarp worms would be far too fidgety for my mitts.

[Grumpy Squatch]

Micro Cord works excellently with Dutch Tarpworms/Hookworms. I have shock cord tensioners on my old SilNylon tarp which is why I started using Fleas and I've stuck with them even on my SilPoly. Hookworms work on tarps that have rings.

[MikekiM]

Micro Cord works excellently with Dutch Tarpworms/Hookworms. I have shock cord tensioners on my old SilNylon tarp which is why I started using Fleas and I've stuck with them even on my SilPoly. Hookworms work on tarps that have rings.

No doubt the Tarp Worms play nice with the micro cord. I really like tarp worms, but in the winter when hands are either gloved or cold, I am challenged to get the loop in the cordage to lock onto the worm.. That's why I switched to mini ucrs for cold weather.

So let me get this right... you're using micro cord with fleas, attached to shock cord. And it holds up?

[Grumpy Squatch]

Whoops ... typing faster than my brain was working. No. I only tarpworms/hookworms with my micro cord :-). I use Flyz for the ridgeline of one of my ground tarps and Stingerz with reflect-it for most of my other tarps.

Funny that we often develop differing ideas of what works best. I abandoned anything involving moving splices (whoopies, ucrs, etc.) for use between October and June. Too easy for moisture to freeze and render them difficult to adjust. In the winter I can usually manipulate micro cord on the tarpworms with just my light glove liners on.

So - on my silnylon Winter Dream I have Tarpworms on shockcord loops. On my silpoly tarp with D-rings built in I use Hookworms without shock cord right to the rings. On my ground tarp I have Tarpworms on a thicker version of Atwood cord.

This way I can keep many different lengths of reflective or other cord wrapped around my stakes in my stake bag and use it no matter what tarp I bring. And it allows me to easily have hi-vis lines, reflective lines, glow-in-the-dark lines, or stealth lines without having to untie or unthread anything. And since I tend to attach my guylines to the stakes with a marlinspike hitch swapping cord is super easy.

[MikekiM]

Thanks..

I have yet to have a mini ucr freeze up. I have them everywhere. Whoopies on the other hand.. done with them. I do use regular UCRs on my suspension from time to time.

A few weekends ago I darn near lost my fingers trying to work zingit onto a tarp worm and it wasn't frigidly cold.

Have you tried the Atwood Glow in the Dark Micro Cord? Bought a roll of that thinking it might a good supplement to the reflective cord.. maybe for tethers on zipper pulls in the hammock, where you would want them to glow rather than reflect. Kind of a bust.. they glow for only a few minutes.

[Grumpy Squatch]

That was my initial impression of the glow-in-the-dark cord too. But then I realized I never tested it appropriately. Inside, I'd turn off the light and it'd seem dark in no time. But, I realized my eyes were the problem and I wasn't giving them the hour or more needed to really adjust to the dark. I have set up a tarp with glo cord on the doors at 5 PM under tree cover. Waking up at 3 in the morning it was very visible ... I find it useful enough that I got some of their 1/16" cord and made zipper pulls for inside my hammock, and sure enough, even with limited sunlight available when setting a hammock up in the afternoon or evening when hiking, the glow is visible when you wake up and your eyes have really adjusted to the dark. So yes, I find it useful.

And the nice thing about micro cord is that the smaller diameter goes right through the hole on Tarpworms with no effort. I agree that Lash/Zing-it was harder to thread through without enlarging the holes.

[MikekiM]

I'll give the glow cord another shot. If for nothing else, I'd like to have on the bug net zipper pulls.

Don't think I had a problem with threading the zingit through the tarp worms. In fact, the only problem I saw with them was really cold weather use as I said.