So I got soaked. Slept in the car. What’s wrong?

[Tyroler Holzhacker]

I had the same thing happen to me on Cheoah Bald (5,000 ft.) in NC last month. I had to get out in the rain/storm twice to fix my knotted suspension. My butt was almost touching the ground.




I had previously spent over 190 days in my hammock @ home but those trees never move.

I imagine it just comes with experience hanging between different spans and slopes.

I realized later I was hanging across the Appalachian Trail. Whoops.

I usually hang in my backyard as well, but I am seriously preparing for some back country hangs in the Shenandoah NP sometime this summer. Whenever I do hang, especially when on vacation far from home, I will research where the nice B & Bs are nearby in case of a disaster such as foul weather that moves in for a long period of time. I can rough it ok, but my wife and daughter are not fans of that.

[dakotaross]

Everybody needs to have the Ultimate Hang calculator on their desktop or phone. Folks, 30 degrees is an optimal target, but not completely necessary. Your ridgeline sets the sag so that the 30 ends up having nothing to do with that, but rather the forces on the ridgeline and straps. Now, there's a reason its optimal - take a look at the calculator and see what happens when you go to a shallow angle. But also keep in mind that most poly straps are rated to 1500 lbs. and as you can see from the calculator, you can stay within spec most of the time, even when you're dealing with less than ideal tree spacing.

There are some that say why risk it? Fair opinion to have, but we carry 1500lb rated straps for the very reason that many camps end up not being ideal for various reasons. Much of the time its because we're camping with others, tenters maybe, and our options are limited to the site that's perhaps been chosen for us. Sometimes its a destination like Cheoah where you go there and make it happen. Sometimes its a camp with the kids where maybe you're picking the site closest to the latrine instead of the one with more ideal trees. Whatever it is, proper tree spacing is something I find almost always to be less than ideal, unless I'm hiking along without regard to where I will camp and I have the luxury of choosing where to stop - which I'm happy to have that luxury as a hanger hiker.

Its just is what it is, and for that reason, 30 degrees is optional. For example, if 15' is ideal, but 20' ends up being the spacing and you want 30 degrees, the calculator says you need to be over 7' up the tree - or else you sacrifice some of that 18" of butt off the ground. That can obviously be difficult for some. Factor in some stretchy nylon straps and its easy to see how the hang can go bad. If you lower the angle to 20 degrees, you can get a very comfy 5' up the tree and keep your stress on the suspension reasonable. But move the distance out to something like 25' - as it seemed to be with the OP - and then you get all sorts of issues, as they did. I would always use a structural ridgeline so that you don't have to sacrifice your lay and just vary angle and distance as needed, but play with the calculator so that you know what you're doing. And know the specs on all of your equipment.

[scrope]

Great thread illustrating one of my personal frustrations with hammocks in general. For what is marketed and appears seemingly simple and ultra-light, can be anything but. Tree width, geometries, varying conditions... it all adds up to be quite frustrating once a person gets past bug net weather.

I remember somebody saying that hammock camping is tarp camping. I think there's a bit of truth to that.

Even tent camping isn't foolproof. I've set up my tent and needed to get up in the middle of the night to reposition it because I didn't select the correct location/direction.

I agree that learning to hammock camp is a new skill and it often takes trial and error to figure out what works for you and the advantages/disadvantages of your equipment. Some of us like this and enjoy futzing with equipment in search of the perfect hike. I can't tell you how many versions of hammocks/quilts/sleeping bags/suspensions/cook systems/water purification systems/etc. that I have -- and I'm constantly switching between them.

Don't be discouraged. It gets easier with practice. I remember just how difficult it was to get a good 30 degree angle on my hammock and now I can just look at it and know if I'm at the right angle and how to adjust it. It didn't take too many times before it became second nature (although I still break out my iPhone and the level widget to verify what I think is a correct angle).

Learn from your mistakes. Learn from other's mistakes. Know your limitations. Don't be afraid to bail if things aren't going right. Know that every mistake you make means that you'll never make that mistake again. Most of all, have fun.

[ChrisJHC]

Great thread illustrating one of my personal frustrations with hammocks in general. For what is marketed and appears seemingly simple and ultra-light, can be anything but. Tree width, geometries, varying conditions... it all adds up to be quite frustrating once a person gets past bug net weather.

Shugs video posted earlier has a lot of great information that will quickly alleviate many issues. Ultimately, as many have written, backyard experimentation + a larger cover is in your future. Hammock use for me started out of economic necessity during big wall climbs. If I were just hiking, thought about the idea of hanging, then read this thread, I'd go by a tent. Serious, and I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer. It's the real-world realization that outside of nice weather, hammocks require some backyard messing around and even then it's going to be a continuous trial and error loop for a while.

Good luck, watch the video, and hang in there (pun intended).

Hi, Ben,

I would suggest that hammocking opens up more options for campsites than sleeping on the ground.
All you need is two trees (or really any two fixed objects) with clear space between them.
Sleeping on the ground you need flat ground, no rocks, no water underneath, etc.

I’ve certainly slung my hammock in places where there was no flat ground to be seen and had a very comfortable night. I did have to be very careful getting in and out as the ground was on a crazy angle.

Obviously you do have to have trees but that’s not a problem in the places I hang.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ACoffee]

So I really felt like it was a math issue. It just wouldn’t fit close at the distance I was hanging. I did get a better fit the next night when I moved but had fair weather. I think the range of trees where the tarp fits is very small.

I’ll either alter the tarp with the offset tie outs or just use it only in fair weather. I had better luck with the kids Yukon hammocks fitting under.

I did have drip lines installed plus I ended up using Beckett Hitches because the toggles interfered with getting the tarp close as well. The hanging part of the hitch should have acted as a drip point it seems as well.

In any case, my fingers are sore from all the knots I tied and untied and rope burn. I will have to save for some bling because adjusting was slow. Not giving up, not even frustrated. Just formulating a plan.

My 2 cents: the longer your tarp ridgeline, the higher it has to hang in order to clear your hammock suspension. It may be counter-intuitive, but a shorter tarp may be better for what you're trying to do because you will be able to pitch it closer to your hammock. This is especially important if there is any wind in the equation. However, I have found that a tarp with longer sides (i.e. hex or rectangle) is a bit more forgiving on the height of the tarp pitch than minimal coverage (i.e. diamond or asym) tarps.

Adding offset tie-outs would be a great way to both shorten the ridgeline and gain more coverage on the sides. This should allow you to pitch the tarp closer to the hammock as well as give you more "wiggle room" in case your pitch isn't perfect.

[scrope]

My 2 cents: the longer your tarp ridgeline, the higher it has to hang in order to clear your hammock suspension.

I think this may be true if you don't want the suspension line and tarp ridgeline to overlap but there's no reason they can't. When I'm in storm mode I often have my tarp ridgeline a foot or so below my hammock suspension line.

[Caminante]

I think this may be true if you don't want the suspension line and tarp ridgeline to overlap but there's no reason they can't. When I'm in storm mode I often have my tarp ridgeline a foot or so below my hammock suspension line.

The problem is not with the lines overlapping which is fairly common especially as the distance between trees grows and the hammock straps move further up the trees. The problem is with a longer tarp, the tarp itself will overlap the hammock suspension lines and that is not good. Therefore, you have to raise the tarp ridgelines on the trees until the tarp itself does not interfere with the hammock straps, increasing the distance between the hammock ridge and the tarp ridge. The tarp ridgeline may still be below the hammock straps on the trees, but there is a limit to how tight you can get the tarp to a hammock which increases with tarp length.

[BenJa]

Hi, Ben,

I would suggest that hammocking opens up more options for campsites than sleeping on the ground.
All you need is two trees (or really any two fixed objects) with clear space between them.
Sleeping on the ground you need flat ground, no rocks, no water underneath, etc.

I’ve certainly slung my hammock in places where there was no flat ground to be seen and had a very comfortable night. I did have to be very careful getting in and out as the ground was on a crazy angle.

Obviously you do have to have trees but that’s not a problem in the places I hang.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Situational. Plenty of times when a tent is a way better idea. And there are plenty of times when a hammock system is a better bet. And there are times when it's best just to bivy. Couple of personal examples:

- 5 years ago I really thought a hammock would thee answer to some of these 7-15 day bikepacking races. Man was I wrong. It's almost always best just to bivy.
- The last R2R trip I did, I thought a hammock would be perfect. Total no-go because of park regs. Ended up being a blanket.

I'm not married to any of them. Tent, bivy, hammock... just tools. Figure out what works for which application and go.

[Country Roads]

I like to match my hammock and tarp to each other: I use mostly 9 foot hammocks, so I use a 10 foot tarp, since I usually hang in some pretty tight spots (not much over 10 feet sometimes and I am short, so rarely hang on trees farther apart that 13 feet). I have found that if I use a really long tarp with a shorter hammock, I need a longer hang distance, which makes for a steeper hang angle on my hammock, so I have to hang the tarp higher to clear the hammock suspension, which gives me less side coverage. The 10 foot tarp can be hung much closer to my hammock and provides great side coverage. And I do use drip lines if expecting any amount of heavy or consistent rain.
If you can, play around with the sag on your hammock; I like to go with the least amount that is comfortable and that does not overly stress the material. This way I also get better side coverage. I also rarely use my asym tarps; mostly just for protection from dew and maybe a really light rain. It may have just been because the tarp was wet in the picture, but there was a lot of sag in it and it did look like it could have been hung a little closer to the hammock.
Yes, it really does get easier; so don't give up. You will find the way and the gear that works best for you.

[Haapasaari]

I am very sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience.

Based on your report and what I can piece together from the Internet with regard to your tarp specifications, here is the "geometry lesson" that backs up what you seem to have experienced first hand...

Your Bear Butt Rain Fly appears to be a square tarp with right angles and equal sides just over 9 feet long; pitched diagonally in what is traditionally referred to as a "diamond pitch" (symmetrical on the diagonal), it is claimed that it has a 154" ridge line length (12'10"). When you hear that the ridge line is almost 13 feet, it sounds like that ought to be plenty of tarp for a standard 11-foot hammock. However, while it is technically a lot of tarp material, in a diamond-pitched square tarp that is inefficiently targeted over your diagonal lay in your gathered-end hammock. This is why the square tarp really gave way a decade or so ago to rectangle tarps, hex tarps, and parallelogram asym tarps for hammock use.

One of the most critical dimensions -- and the most often overlooked -- in two-panel hammock tarp construction is the "cutback distance"; this is the distance as measured parallel to the ridge line that the corners of a tarp are set back from its ridge line tie-outs, starting from a point colinear with the RL tie-out and perpendicular to the ridge line itself.

Consider three tarp shapes, all with the same ridge line length and the same panel width...

A rectangle tarp (with four right-angle corners) has corner tie-outs colinear with the RL tie-out and ground edges identical in length to its ridge line; it has a zero cutback distance and a zero cutback angle.

A hex tarp is a hammock-specific tarp shape that has acute angles (less than 90 degrees) at the ridge line and obtuse angles (greater than 90 degrees) at the lateral corners. The idea behind a hex tarp over a hammock is that you delete extra material outboard on the corners of a rectangular tarp but still leave good overhang for your head and feet when laying diagonally in your gathered-end hammock, thereby saving weight and pack space. In theory, this increases the efficiency of the tarp per unit of area. Typical cutback distance on most standard-size hex tarps is about 30", although they can often range from 24" to 36" in cutback. Cutback distance in conjunction with panel width and cat-cut depth account for virtually all the variability in performance of hex tarps with the same RL length.

A square/diamond tarp over a hammock in a diamond pitch is effectively an extreme version of a hex tarp, i.e., a hex tarp with a maximum cutback distance, equal to half the ridge line length. The corners are cut so far back they meet in the middle, with only one tie-out on each side colinear with the midpoint of the ridge line. You can see how, when compared to a rectangle or hex, you are deleting so much material that you may experience inadequate coverage over your diagonal lay unless the panels are very wide -- which sort of defeats the purpose of cutting back to create a smaller tarp in the first place.

Now let's look at your specific case...

A typical 11-foot hex tarp has a 132" ridge line and panels just under 60" wide with a cutback angle of approximately 30 degrees. That means that centered over your 11-foot hammock with a 110" ridge line, the hex tarp gives you close to 11" of overhang at the ends and extends a healthy 60" laterally from the RL at a point 36" toward the gathered ends on either side of the RL midpoint.

Your Bear Butt rain fly has a 154" ridge line with lateral corners that extend out 77" from the RL and a cutback angle of 45 degrees. The overhang on the ends is overkill at about 22", and the middle of your hammock is well covered, but 36" toward each gathered end along the ridge line from its midpoint, your BB fly extends laterally only 41" on each side -- that's more than a foot and a half less coverage over your head and feet than the smaller 11-foot hex. That difference is more than enough to let you get wet in bad weather. (NB: Effective distances and coverage of the "rain shadow" of each tarp are affected by the slope of the pitch of its panels, but the magnitude of the difference between the two shapes is still significant.)

Additionally, since you need to work around your hammock suspension, the relative inadequacies of your square tarp's shape are compounded by having too long a ridge line relative to the RL of your hammock. At a proper (30-degree) hammock suspension angle the extra length of the BB fly forces you to pitch it nearly 6.5" higher than an 11-foot hex tarp, just to fit it between your hammock straps. This is not such a big deal in summer weather when you want to fend off a few sprinkles, but it defeats your best attempt at "storm mode" in a significant downpour, especially when there is wind involved.

So, if my information about your tarp model's dimensions is correct and my back-of-napkin calculations aren't too far off, it doesn't offer you a lot of hope pitching your fly over an 11-foot hammock without modification. However, with due praise to Pythagoras, you may be able to modify your tarp for some temporary relief from the rain by modifying it slightly while you look for a longer-term upgrade...

Pick a corner of your square tarp with the vertex pointed toward you and the panel of the tarp extending away from you (ideally so that any seams are running down the tarp rather than across it). If you are a head left/feet right hanger, measure in a counter-clockwise direction down the hem from the corner you selected for 7" to 17" inches and mark a location to install a secondary ridge line tie-out. (This is the opposite of what you see on Dutch's Wide Asym Tarp or my DIY Glasgow K.I.S.S. tarp, since you are trying to solve a different problem...) Go all the way around the tarp to the opposite (diametrically opposed) corner, measure in the same direction, and mark the exact same distance. Use a square of pack cloth sandwiched over the hem with some grosgrain and some hardware to install sturdy tie-outs with rows of reinforcing stitching perpendicular to the line running between these two tie-out points and the ribbon running inline with it.

Now, hang your modified tarp asym-style using the secondary tie-outs you just installed. (You may need to tie-out the "storm flaps" you've created through modifying the diagonal ridge line.) Depending upon the exact distance from the tarp corner you picked for your secondary RL tie-outs (I recommend further inboard toward 17"), you will have an effective secondary ridge line between 11 and 12 feet (132" to 144") long, but you'll improve the coverage over your head and feet -- enough, I hope, to keep you dry the next time it rains...

(The finished product will look something like this when pitched...)

https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...lar-Wide-Asym)



HTH...

Wow! I think you can’t get an answer more thorough than this! Hats off!