Synthetic underquilts and rain protection

[jdy98p]

While I'm sure it's still a good idea to use an underquilt protector on an AHE synthetic underquilt, is it necessary in the "be prepared" sense? Does use of APEX mean I don't need to carry around a UQP?

[pgibson]

Your tarp should be your #1 rain protector. From there I have never once used an UQP...with any insulation type. Not that I am against them. They can serve a useful purpose but it should not be your main way of keeping moisture off of a quilt. They can help to block wind from pulling heat and they can help if you're experiencing a lot of splashes up from rain....but again a properly sized tarp and that should be difficult. No matter what you don't want a significant amount of moisture on your quilts. But we do use a very high-quality fabric that is treated with a good DWR (durable water repellent) from the fabric mill here in the US. Light misting should shake right off the fabric and never make it to the insulation.

[kitsapcowboy]

There are no absolutes, but to varying degrees depending upon your environmental conditions and the degree to which your gear gets wet (as well as how and how quickly you're able to get it dry again) , I believe your Climashield synthetic underquilt should continue to perform better and suffer less long-term damage after getting wet than a comparably rated down quilt. While CS synthetic insulation can suffer long-term degradation from repeated compression cycles, it doesn't generally shift, clump, or mat, and it still provides some appreciable thermal value if it gets damp. My $0.02...

[jdy98p]

There are no absolutes, but to varying degrees depending upon your environmental conditions and the degree to which your gear gets wet (as well as how and how quickly you're able to get it dry again) , I believe your Climashield synthetic underquilt should continue to perform better and suffer less long-term damage after getting wet than a comparably rated down quilt. While CS synthetic insulation can suffer long-term degradation from repeated compression cycles, it doesn't generally shift, clump, or mat, and it still provides some appreciable thermal value if it gets damp. My $0.02...

Is there a good estimate on CS breakdown stats vs down? Given the fairly small weight increase and the fact that I don't plan on massively long trips, I'm leaning toward CS if it will hold up well.

[kitsapcowboy]

I doubt the degradation statistics for which you're looking are easy to find.

Climashield doesn't pack down nearly as efficiently as down, but for warmer weather the size and weight penalties are minimized, so unless I'm trying to go really ultralight (which I never am), synthetic -- even with its trade-offs -- is always an acceptable alternative for me under those conditions. I own both down and synthetic quilts for all temperatures above the freezing mark. Only when I am doing deep winter camping (20s or below) do I find Climashield too bulky and heavy to be practical. My $0.02. YMMV.

[Grumpy Squatch]

I agree w/ Kitsapcowboy on this. My 40° and 20° underquilts are CS, but my 0° is down. My reasoning is that in temps above freezing I am more likely to get some wetness. For instance a recent 3 day trip where it rained almost non-stop for 48 hours along with a steady mist. Everything was just damp through and through.

I use down as well, when compressability matters and there is appreciable weight savings - for instance my 20° and 0° topquilts are both down while my 40° is CS. The down 20° just compresses better.

For the original question, I don't routinely carry an UQP and rely on my Winter Dream tarp more than anything. If I am expecting true gully-washing downpours where splash might be an issue, or I want to use a smaller tarp but might get a cold or breezy night, I'll throw in my UQP (my hex tarp and UQP are lighter together than my Winter Dream alone). But I don't routinely carry it.

[carmen2kayak]

I just got back from a trip to FL that included some of the remainder of TS Alberto. I used a 12' Hex tarp and Climashield UQ (both DIY). No rain penetrated the tarp and no splashing from underneath. Everything stayed totally dry except for some condensation under the tarp. I choose Climashield due to severe allergies and my backpacking days are behind me so no weight penalty. My UQ gets wetter from breaking camp in the rain than from rain/splash under the tarp.

[pgibson]

Is there a good estimate on CS breakdown stats vs down? Given the fairly small weight increase and the fact that I don't plan on massively long trips, I'm leaning toward CS if it will hold up well.

Last year I heard from the person who has the very first quilt we made...9+ years ago now. It's still in use regularly and performing just fine. And that was 2 generations ago's Climashield. The new APEX performs even better and recovers from hard use much better. And since that first quilt, we have built somewhere over 10,000 Climasheild quilts.

[jdy98p]

Thanks for the replies all. I wasn't really feeling the UQP, but now I feel like I'm validated in that opinion

A CS UQ is now on my list of (future) purchases, and I feel like the only reasonable place to get it would be AHE unless I find a used one for sale that I pick up.

[nagami]

subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread