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  1. #11
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    Jeff oh,

    Is synthetic permethrin a neurotoxin, or is it Not?
    [YOUTUBE="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RRG8nUDbVXU"]Beyond Treason[/YOUTUBE]

  2. #12
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    Delete due to double post.
    Last edited by Equalizer; 06-28-2018 at 17:41.
    [YOUTUBE="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RRG8nUDbVXU"]Beyond Treason[/YOUTUBE]

  3. #13
    Senior Member chefkeith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equalizer View Post
    Jeff oh,

    Is synthetic permethrin a neurotoxin, or is it Not?
    Of course it is. So is ethyl alcohol, but it’s only harmful in large quantities.

    I don’t think anyone here is disputing that fact. The very study that you posted showed the opposite of your personal beliefs.

    If you chose to believe something other than the study reports, you should point out the flaws in their research or conduct your own study.

    Here’s a link to the study in case it hasn’t been posted yet: https://www.nap.edu/read/9274/chapter/2

  4. #14
    Senior Member Chesapeake's Avatar
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    You all know my thoughts on this issue..... I'd pour 10 gallons of gasoline on myself while smoking a cigarette if the gas kept the BLOOD SUCKING TICKS, BLOOD SUCKING SPIDERS AND FACE EATING RACOONS away lol. Get rid of the headache by cutting off the head is what I say lol, I'll deal with the side effects if I'm fact there are any later. I treat my boots, gaitors and pack with 100% DEET, everything else and skin with Permethrin + Picardin and have never had any problems. I even ~ carefully ~ spray it on my wife and kids and their gear/legs/arms too.... So far we are side effect and disease free! I did find out last week that nymph Lone Star ticks are so fast that they will crawl from boot to upper leg well before the chemicals kick in. The ones that got stuck under my laces ,in the mesh of my boots, on my gaitors did all die after a few mins , and the few that did make it up my leg died before they could latch on completely. I'd say it worked...... and it wasn't 2 or 3 ticks either, no it was more like 200-300. No joke. Tigglet and Jellyfish had the same amounts on them as well.
    " The best pace is a suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die." ~ Steve Prefontaine

  5. #15
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    For what it's worth: essential oils like tea tree, eucalyptus, lime and lemon can be quite toxic as well if used wrongly or in too high quantities. Still you suggest using them. Yes, some of the remedies you list are working to some extent, but they are far less effective and need to be applied in higher frequency in order to offer a reasonable amount of protection. Also, you can never be sure that they work at any given time. That might be acceptable if all you risk is an itchy spot. To me it stops being acceptable when there is a high risk of catching a serious disease. I'd rather use Permethrin, Icaridin or even Deet than having to take much worse drugs later on to cure something that could have been prevented with less damage.

  6. #16
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    A guy I work with today contracted Lymes disease while we were at SERE school. Typical military he was not diagnosed for years, when the effects had become severe. He's still alive today, but is suffering a living hell. I would not hesitate to use the strongest available chemicals to prevent this, the risks of misdiagnosis are far too high and the disease effects far too severe. I soak everything in Permethrin and use Deet liberally every time I go in the mountains and then check myself regularly.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heydad! View Post
    A guy I work with today contracted Lymes disease while we were at SERE school. Typical military he was not diagnosed for years, when the effects had become severe. He's still alive today, but is suffering a living hell. I would not hesitate to use the strongest available chemicals to prevent this, the risks of misdiagnosis are far too high and the disease effects far too severe. I soak everything in Permethrin and use Deet liberally every time I go in the mountains and then check myself regularly.
    Spot on. Thank you.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #18
    Senior Member trouthunter's Avatar
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    Haven't posted here in quite a while, just been very busy.

    I'm sure I'm in no way alone or special and many members here already have much experience with this, but for what it's worth.........

    I backpack and canoe in an area heavy with insects, this would be freshwater & saltwater marshes, including inland riverine swamps located in the coastal plain of South Carolina.
    I employ long sleeves & pants, I treat my fabrics with Permethrin, and I use 3M Ultrathon (controlled release Deet) on exposed skin.
    Etc. Etc.

    I have tried "natural" repellents many times, including vitamins, supplement, lotions, oils, etc.
    Some of these had limited effect for short periods of time in areas with light bug populations.

    In areas with dense bug populations, these "natural" repellents are a complete joke as far as I'm concerned. They simply are not effective for me, nor do they seem to be effective for others I see trying them.
    I think it is wrong to promote " natural" remedies to folks and then send them off into bug infested areas (debatebly) unprotected.
    If someone wishes to try something natural thats fine, but I would advise they also carry some Deet (or similar) with them if they are venturing out away from their vehicle.
    What may seem to work in your backyard may be quite ineffective in a wilderness setting. I have learned that lesson many times!

    I'm far more concerned with bug bites and the resulting possibility to contract disease or infection than the very limited exposure to Deet, Permethrin, etc. I'm exposing myself to.
    This is something I've put considerable thought into over the years, and I've come to the conclusion that some people just have what I call Toxiphobia.

    They seem to divide things into 2 simple groups:
    Natural or Chemical

    Natural being good for you, organic, safe, and effective.

    Chemical being evil, man-made, and will cause you to go insane, grow an extra eyeball or something.

    This is how they feel and no amount of reason or logic will change their mind.

    I offer this challenge - grab your Skin so Soft, or Vitamin B tablets and join me for a weekend in Hell Hole swamp during the summer and let's see what happens. Maybe it works for some people.
    I like to go solo - off trail - immerse myself in the area - explore - eat really well - and make it back home.

  9. #19
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    Well, I totally respect everyone who has it in for deet and permethrin, BUT, take it from someone who got very, very sick from Rocky Mtn. Spotted Fever, You don’t want it.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by trouthunter View Post
    Haven't posted here in quite a while, just been very busy.

    I'm sure I'm in no way alone or special and many members here already have much experience with this, but for what it's worth.........

    I backpack and canoe in an area heavy with insects, this would be freshwater & saltwater marshes, including inland riverine swamps located in the coastal plain of South Carolina.
    I employ long sleeves & pants, I treat my fabrics with Permethrin, and I use 3M Ultrathon (controlled release Deet) on exposed skin.
    Etc. Etc.

    I have tried "natural" repellents many times, including vitamins, supplement, lotions, oils, etc.
    Some of these had limited effect for short periods of time in areas with light bug populations.

    In areas with dense bug populations, these "natural" repellents are a complete joke as far as I'm concerned. They simply are not effective for me, nor do they seem to be effective for others I see trying them.
    I think it is wrong to promote " natural" remedies to folks and then send them off into bug infested areas (debatebly) unprotected.
    If someone wishes to try something natural thats fine, but I would advise they also carry some Deet (or similar) with them if they are venturing out away from their vehicle.
    What may seem to work in your backyard may be quite ineffective in a wilderness setting. I have learned that lesson many times!

    I'm far more concerned with bug bites and the resulting possibility to contract disease or infection than the very limited exposure to Deet, Permethrin, etc. I'm exposing myself to.
    This is something I've put considerable thought into over the years, and I've come to the conclusion that some people just have what I call Toxiphobia.

    They seem to divide things into 2 simple groups:
    Natural or Chemical

    Natural being good for you, organic, safe, and effective.

    Chemical being evil, man-made, and will cause you to go insane, grow an extra eyeball or something.

    This is how they feel and no amount of reason or logic will change their mind.

    I offer this challenge - grab your Skin so Soft, or Vitamin B tablets and join me for a weekend in Hell Hole swamp during the summer and let's see what happens. Maybe it works for some people.
    And to go along with this line of thought: “natural” doesn’t immediately mean “safe,” and many chemicals are simply man made copies of naturally occurring compounds (ie permethrin).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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