Experience may be the answer

[Peppy]

Love my hammocks. Love them. There is no place I'd rather be but miles from a trailhead tucked in under a bluff by a river unwinding and unconnected to the world. Ah yes, the reasons we hang are many.
I'm Peppy, and I'm an addict. Hammocks to me are also my daily getaway. Gives me a little bit to ponder something other than the responsibilities I have. I love my life. Enjoy everything I do, but it's just nice to get my mind on something else.
Anyway, here is my dilemma, I've tried and failed to find comfort in the Warbonnet line of gathered end hammocks. Never seem to get it right, so I send it on down the line. Maybe it's just not right for me. HYOH, YMMV, etc, etc. But I am determined to give it another shot.
So what can experienced guys and gals share to help a fellow who is willing to give it another go? Foot end about a foot higher? Tighten up the ridgeline a bit with a biner? Let it out? I'm looking for practical tips that helped you find your sweet spot in Brandon's creation.
For reference, I haven't yet made my purchase. Considering an Eldorado or XLC. Probably Eldorado. Since I've struggled before, I can get in a bit cheaper, but hey, you never know. You guys have inspired me before.
Have a great day everyone, and thanks in advance.

[TominMN]

I can be VERY comfortable in my XLC. The common knowledge seems to be that many people need to get the foot end quite high to get a good lay, sometimes 18" or more! I keep the foot end high but not that high and it works for me. For whatever reason, it (again) seems to be more important with WB hammocks than some other brands. Not a deal breaker IMHO.

If I'm not at enough diagonal, I'll run into the dreaded "calf ridge" problem that can occur with virtually any GE hammock. Once I get my lay angle right, everything is fine.

If you have a net zipped on ANY WB hammock, be very careful about messing with the structural ridgeline; you risk tearing the net.

[Shug]

From Warbonnet....Set Up.....https://www.warbonnetoutdoors.com/wp...mock-setup.pdf

Hammock setup
Blackbird, Blackbird XLC, Traveler hammock Setup:

The following describes a detailed setup method that should result in maximum comfort (vs. simply hanging between 2 trees and getting inside, which works also.)

Find 2 trees that are ideally 13-17′ apart. Hang the hammock so that “once occupied” the foot end is about 16″ higher than the head end, and by “end” I mean the end of the fabric, not the attachment point on the tree itself. Since the foot end needs to be significantly higher, the easiest way to achieve this is often to just position the hammock much closer to the foot tree AND attach the webbing to the foot tree at head height or above. Having the head end farther away from it’s tree means it will sink more when you get in and that is usually what you want.

The BB/XLC/Traveler is designed to be laid in “off-center” so that your head is very close to the head end of the hammock while your feet are alot farther away from the foot end. This allows the fabric under your legs to spread out properly when laying on the diagonal. To do this you’ll want to lay so that your eyes are aprox. even with the farthest side tieout (BB or XLC) so that one tieout is even with your eyes and the other is chest level. Once you are laying in this correct spot you will then determine if you want the head/foot end higher or lower. Most people will want it setup so that when your eyes are even with the tieout that you are basically level/horizontal from hips to shoulders, so if your upper body seems too inclined or declined simply move the webbing up or down the tree trunk to adjust.

You will want to avoid ever pulling the suspension “tight” so there is little to no slack left, doing this will result in the suspension stretching more and the hammock height dropping by a foot or more once weighted, It can also over-stress your suspension. You generally will raise a hammock not by tightening the suspension but by raising it on the tree. A simple test can be done once you are in the hammock… if the ridgeline seems like it is guitar-string tight (see Blackbird setup video to see me doing this test) then the hammock is probably set too tight . If the ridgeline droops (while you’re laying down) then the hammock is too loose. Tightening the suspension tightens up the ridgeline and loosening the suspension loosens the ridgeline.

When using any webbing/buckle suspension, make sure that the buckles and webbing are aligned correctly. Webbing/buckles can sometimes get twisted up in the stuffsac and if you hang the hammock without ever looking at or adjusting one end you may not notice, so be sure that even if no length adjustment is needed that you give a glance to make sure they are aligned properly before using the hammock. If the hammock is weighted with the buckles turned sideways it can damage the webbing and/or potentially lead to failure of the webbing.

Never leave the hammock in direct sunlight for prolonged periods. UV rays degrade and weaken any synthetic fabric. Regularly inspect the hammock (and suspension) for wear, and always hang close to the ground. The suspension will wear out over time and need to be replaced eventually, do this BEFORE failure occurs.

If you use a hammock as a ground-shelter, always use a ground-cloth and pad underneath to protect the hammock body from abrasion.

Always make sure the area you are camping in is free of overhead hazards (such as dead trees and branches) before hanging the hammock, especially if you expect windy conditions

If you use the Blackbird or XLC as a chair (sitting sideways with your legs hanging over the zipper), avoid leaning back against the shelf seam.

[Just Bill]

If'n I may be so bold...

It may simply be a fabric issue. To a large extent we are all spoiled with so many great options that we can discuss that possibility.

At it's heart:
Is a basic 11' gathered end with an integrated net from Dutch, Randy, or Brandon that dramatically different?
Yes you could debate some subtle bits and signature details, but as far as I am aware Jared's Streamliner is the only pattern cut outside the basic rectangle.

If Dutch loved me to death and he tossed in all his bling free, had my very favorite elf build me a custom printed Chameleon in my favorite custom printed colors, but they made it with Argon 1.6 ... I'd hate it.
If Randy and the smurfs patiently placed each color coded stitch, zipper pull and custom located quilt hook with care into an outdoor ink Hex 70 with my children's faces printed on it masterpiece... I'd hate it.

Each of these gents may be fine folks with design or craftsmanship bordering on genius levels with hundreds of loyal happy customers.

But at the end of the day... if you don't like the fabric they use... it doesn't matter.

Brandon uses his own fabric.
It is what it is. Sourcing it himself direct from the mill keeps costs down and meets his needs. He doesn't need to deal with a Jelly Belly factory line up of flavors and options to meet every palate.
One size fits most, there are a few colors. Cost is good, wait times are low or even occasionally non-existent. He's got unique product offerings, innovative ideas, and some patented products.

But... at some point if you're forcing yourself to use something you don't like... doesn't matter what features, how well made or cool it is if it doesn't work for you.
I can find you a dozen people that think my Big Guy is the best hammock ever... I can also tell you I can't sleep in it and use the Luxury. Exact same hammock AND same fabric- different structure.

When I hear X dozens people love a hammock and Y dozens of people hate it... I hear a fabric issue.
I don't think it's design, I don't think it's user error, I don't think it's anything special.
Especially when a vendor offers one proprietary fabric and has a bit of a hit or miss reputation as a result.
I believe Brandon's fabrics are made from Nylon 6.6, not 6.0 and have been for some time.
Like many other fabrics- it has it's fans and it's detractors, it's positives and negatives.
You like it, or you don't.

In my experience- that's your answer.

[TominMN]

If'n I may be so bold...
...

When I hear X dozens people love a hammock and Y dozens of people hate it... I hear a fabric issue.
I don't think it's design, I don't think it's user error, I don't think it's anything special.
Especially when a vendor offers one proprietary fabric and has a bit of a hit or miss reputation as a result.
I believe Brandon's fabrics are made from Nylon 6.6, not 6.0 and have been for some time.
Like many other fabrics- it has it's fans and it's detractors, it's positives and negatives.
You like it, or you don't.

In my experience- that's your answer.

Maybe, just maybe, it could come down to a combination of things. I'm speculating here. Say it IS the fabric that doesn't work for some, regardless of which of Brandon's fabrics you choose, or even what combination thereof in terms of layers. Whatever the characteristics, what if severely elevating the foot end, thereby shifting the body position head-ward, happens to hit the spot in terms of comfort for some who couldn't make it work otherwise?


Just thinkin'...

[OneClick]

It comes down to fabric for me. I got a blackbird in the new 1.6 single layer and I love it. Soft and silky with a little stretch. For me that's the key for overall comfort, but most importantly, reducing any calf ridge pressure even more. My favorite is 1.6 Argon. Again, a tiny bit of stretch to let you "sink" into that sweet spot.

If you felt like you reached the end of figuring it out, you can put that foot end really high like you said. Just to see what happens. The instructions Shug posted above are very helpful.

[TominMN]

It comes down to fabric for me. I got a blackbird in the new 1.6 single layer and I love it. Soft and silky with a little stretch. For me that's the key for overall comfort, but most importantly, reducing any calf ridge pressure even more. My favorite is 1.6 Argon. Again, a tiny bit of stretch to let you "sink" into that sweet spot.

If you felt like you reached the end of figuring it out, you can put that foot end really high like you said. Just to see what happens. The instructions Shug posted above are very helpful.

You hit on the two critical aspects of fabric: feel and stretch. Each important in their own way and how much an individual values and balances them in terms of that.

[Just Bill]

Maybe, just maybe, it could come down to a combination of things. I'm speculating here. Say it IS the fabric that doesn't work for some, regardless of which of Brandon's fabrics you choose, or even what combination thereof in terms of layers. Whatever the characteristics, what if severely elevating the foot end, thereby shifting the body position head-ward, happens to hit the spot in terms of comfort for some who couldn't make it work otherwise?


Just thinkin'...

I don't disagree.

https://runrepeat.com/top-10-running...ing-techniques

Reminds me some of this concept...
All great tricks to take a pair of shoes that fits you pretty well and fine tune it to perfection.
Combine it with just right socks and even a little break in work on your part to adjust your body to the shoe and you're golden.

But none of those various tricks will make the wrong pair of shoes work.

At some point if a brand or model doesn't work for you no point in beating your head against the wall.

Speer and Hennesey would still be the only game in town and we DIY folks would only buy ripstop from Joanne fabric if technique could solve every problem.
By far, fabric is the biggest factor after you cleared the basic hurdles of proper setup or even tried a few tricks.

Messing too much with integrated net models may be a recipe for other problems too like tearing netting or fighting zippers. Unlike an open/netless model you can't go too nuts tinkering.
Other than choosing a single or a double layer there are not a lot of places to go here.

There are hundreds of shoe companies for good reason.
There are a dozen or so hammock vendors for good reason too.

Especially in this case... you've got a person who has used hammocks from many different vendors successfully.
And tried several times in several models to get this vendor's hammocks to work.


We all know Brandon builds good stuff, and lots of folks like his stuff.
For some reason this particular hanger struggles with them and he don't quite understand why.


My honest opinion is that the shoe simply doesn't fit.
Hate to see the fella bang his head against the wall trying to make it work.

[OneClick]

I think the Blackbirds are different enough that people get discouraged when they don't work out right away. Back in 2012 I remember struggling and talking with Brandon, mainly about the calf ridge pressure.

He since put out those instructions, videos, as well as help here on the forum. They're great hammocks and worth a little extra "figuring out" IMO.

[TominMN]

I've purchased from almost all of the top vendors. I'll never be a one-brand owner when it comes to hammocks. That said, I believe one of my hammocks will always be a XLC.