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  1. #11
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    BillyBob58, yes pads with higher R values are warmer than pads with lower R values. And yes, inflatable pads that are blown up have a higher R value than if un-inflated. But this isn't about that. This is about spencerdella's comfort and hassle factor with dealing with a pad (rather than an under quilt).

    Part of the comfort in a hammock is how it contours to your body. And a slightly inflated or un-inflated pad would contour more than a stiff fully blown up pad. For spencerdella's comfort - the objective - I was suggesting that the pad could be placed outside the hammock bed by using an UQP (or DL hammock) and that it might be work well enough in that situation without being inflated.

    I was saying that pads are expected to be inflated (maximum R value) when used on the ground because that is direct contact (conduction heat loss) with something cold. But when used as a wind barrier, it might be enough to use it uninflected. It worked for me, in my early days, during the summer.

    It was not a matter of absolute R values; it's about "enough-ness" and comfortable.

  2. #12
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cougarmeat View Post
    BillyBob58, yes pads with higher R values are warmer than pads with lower R values. And yes, inflatable pads that are blown up have a higher R value than if un-inflated. But this isn't about that. This is about spencerdella's comfort and hassle factor with dealing with a pad (rather than an under quilt).

    Part of the comfort in a hammock is how it contours to your body. And a slightly inflated or un-inflated pad would contour more than a stiff fully blown up pad. For spencerdella's comfort - the objective - I was suggesting that the pad could be placed outside the hammock bed by using an UQP (or DL hammock) and that it might be work well enough in that situation without being inflated.

    I was saying that pads are expected to be inflated (maximum R value) when used on the ground because that is direct contact (conduction heat loss) with something cold. But when used as a wind barrier, it might be enough to use it uninflected. It worked for me, in my early days, during the summer.

    It was not a matter of absolute R values; it's about "enough-ness" and comfortable.
    OK, got it. It is not about "warmer" when inflated, but about "sometimes warm enough" when deflated.

  3. #13
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    Yes

  4. #14
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    Yes, pads with a higher R value are comparatively warmer on both ground and in the air. But they are not equal, i.e. the temperature range for a given pad is quite a bit lower in the air than on the ground.

    I actually had a pad failure last night. I was sleeping on and Exped Synmat 7 UL MW placed top of a CCF for protection from the concrete floor. In the morning I thought something felt strange and sure enough one of the middle baffles had failed making one larger tube where there should have been two smaller tubes. I called Exped USA this afternoon and they are sending a replacement.

  5. #15
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlTrailDog View Post
    Yes, pads with a higher R value are comparatively warmer on both ground and in the air. But they are not equal, i.e. the temperature range for a given pad is quite a bit lower in the air than on the ground.

    I actually had a pad failure last night. I was sleeping on and Exped Synmat 7 UL MW placed top of a CCF for protection from the concrete floor. In the morning I thought something felt strange and sure enough one of the middle baffles had failed making one larger tube where there should have been two smaller tubes. I called Exped USA this afternoon and they are sending a replacement.
    That scares me when it comes to really remote country. have read about quite a few either baffle failures or just plain old leaks in the reviews for some of this gear. You can patch a leak if you can find it(some reported great difficulty finding the leaks in the field), but what happens if a baffle blows? Is it stil more or less usable, just 1 large baffle rather than 2, but still thick and insulating? Or is it game over until it is repaired?

  6. #16
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    That scares me when it comes to really remote country. have read about quite a few either baffle failures or just plain old leaks in the reviews for some of this gear. You can patch a leak if you can find it(some reported great difficulty finding the leaks in the field), but what happens if a baffle blows? Is it stil more or less usable, just 1 large baffle rather than 2, but still thick and insulating? Or is it game over until it is repaired?
    I am assuming it rarely happens as I have not seen much on the internet about baffle failures. It would have been perfectly field serviceable. The only leak failure I've had with inflatables was years, no, decades ago, when a Thermarest pro-lite lost a tussle with a cactus in the SW. Repaired it with seam seal in several spots. Stick it under water to find the leaks, like an inner tube. Most pads nowadays come with a field repair kit in a small pocket in the stuff sack.

  7. #17
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlTrailDog View Post
    I am assuming it rarely happens as I have not seen much on the internet about baffle failures. It would have been perfectly field serviceable. The only leak failure I've had with inflatables was years, no, decades ago, when a Thermarest pro-lite lost a tussle with a cactus in the SW. Repaired it with seam seal in several spots. Stick it under water to find the leaks, like an inner tube. Most pads nowadays come with a field repair kit in a small pocket in the stuff sack.
    OK, thanks! Just recently I was reading reviews and I saw a few baffle failures, can't remember where I was reading it. Also, a couple of small leaks that could not be located in the field. But, if function remains when a baffle blows, then that is good to know.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlTrailDog View Post
    I am assuming it rarely happens as I have not seen much on the internet about baffle failures. It would have been perfectly field serviceable. The only leak failure I've had with inflatables was years, no, decades ago, when a Thermarest pro-lite lost a tussle with a cactus in the SW. Repaired it with seam seal in several spots. Stick it under water to find the leaks, like an inner tube. Most pads nowadays come with a field repair kit in a small pocket in the stuff sack.
    That is indeed the easy/quick way to find a leak but there needs to be enough water available at the time! I had a T-rest punctured by a pine needle! Submersion was indeed the way to find the hole.

  9. #19
    Senior Member trouthunter's Avatar
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    I have skimmed through the replies and didn't see where you said whether or not you have a single or double layer hammock.
    I have a double layer WBBB myself and I made myself a 3/4 length underquilt from a child's rectangular synthetic sleeping bag. I only intended to use it in mild winter conditions and it is warm enough for that.

    After having some trouble keeping it in place during some high winds one night I decided to try using it between the double layer bottom. ( Problem was a poorly designed suspension, my bad.)
    This was against my better judgement actually because I assumed it would get mashed flat and loose most of it's R value, but I was cold so I gave it a try.

    To my amazement it worked well and was warmer than having it hang under the hammock as an UQ.
    I can only assume it didn't get mashed flat.

    Just a thought, but something I would certainly test at home.

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