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  1. #301
    OneClick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groundskeeper View Post
    Campmor has a VB bag liner for $27. Give it a try.
    That's the liner I tested above in post #292. ^^

    Seems to work well but will be doing more testing.

    Review thread: Equinox Vapor Barrier Liner

  2. #302

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    Billy Bob has a good suggestion with the garbage bag idea. Long ago I faced a situation where I needed my pack to be quite light but it would be cold and damp at night. I carried my not warm enough mummy bag and taped 2 garbage bags together to make a long tube closed at one end. I slept in long underwear inside the tube placed inside the mummy bag. I'm a believer in vapor barriers.

  3. #303
    Senior Member TZBrown's Avatar
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    Another try out type VB are Christmas tree disposal bags. Now is the season to find them also.

    They are long enough to cover you to your neck........ don't let the kids use them.
    Life's A Journey
    It's not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body,
    But rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,
    Woo Hoo!....What a Ride!

    My PHOTOS

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  4. #304
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    So, I've read through this thread, the vapor barrier sticky and a couple other VB posts. Feels like I should be getting my Vapor Barrier PhD any day now. Let's see if I understand this.

    If I am using appropriate gear for a 1-2 day trip and my insulation isn't getting wet, I don't really need to worry about using a vapor barrier. If I have 0 degree quilts and it is going to be 15 degrees I should be fine.

    If I am doing a longer trip and am concerned with insulation getting wet I might want to consider a vapor barrier.

    If I am trying to stretch the limits of my gear I might want to use a vapor barrier. If I have 20 degree quilts and it will be 10 degrees a vapor barrier might extend the comfort of the quilts.

    If I am wearing vapor barrier clothing I should just wear a thin layer underneath the VB and if needed, an insulating layer over the VB.

    If I use a vapor barrier sleeping bag liner I should only wear a thin layer of clothing but little or no insulation since it will get wet.

    Is my diploma in the mail, or do I need to keep studying?

  5. #305
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    Pretty good! My thin base layer and socks didn't get wet at all when using my VB liner. I was surprised by this, but could depend on the individual and weather. To be safe, just plan on that being your "sleep outfit" only, with something dry for daytime.

    For socks, I don't wear anything under the VB sock since the more layers, the more uncomfortable it is to walk. That plastic bag feeling against my skin surprisingly goes away almost immediately and don't notice it.

    I plan on using my TQ liner most winter nights, at least the first day, even if I'm only doing 2-3 nights. I just hate that damp "weak down" feeling when the quilts get damp. They may get some from the weather, but at least I can block my body vapor.

  6. #306
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unionmanbirch View Post
    So, I've read through this thread, the vapor barrier sticky and a couple other VB posts. Feels like I should be getting my Vapor Barrier PhD any day now. Let's see if I understand this.

    If I am using appropriate gear for a 1-2 day trip and my insulation isn't getting wet, I don't really need to worry about using a vapor barrier. If I have 0 degree quilts and it is going to be 15 degrees I should be fine.

    If I am doing a longer trip and am concerned with insulation getting wet I might want to consider a vapor barrier.

    If I am trying to stretch the limits of my gear I might want to use a vapor barrier. If I have 20 degree quilts and it will be 10 degrees a vapor barrier might extend the comfort of the quilts.

    If I am wearing vapor barrier clothing I should just wear a thin layer underneath the VB and if needed, an insulating layer over the VB.

    If I use a vapor barrier sleeping bag liner I should only wear a thin layer of clothing but little or no insulation since it will get wet.

    Is my diploma in the mail, or do I need to keep studying?
    Yes, your Ph.D. diploma is in the mail, you certainly seem to to have the basics figured out, though we were not able to award you Magna Cum Laude as of yet, as we can't be certain you have every fine detail nailed down. For one thing, you must have some practical hours earned in the field to qualify for highest honors. But you ae for sure good enough to go to start earning those hours if desired.

    "If I am wearing vapor barrier clothing I should just wear a thin layer underneath the VB and if needed, an insulating layer over the VB.

    If I use a vapor barrier sleeping bag liner I should only wear a thin layer of clothing but little or no insulation since it will get wet."

    That is certainly correct theory. Some might debate the use of "it will get wet" vs "might get wet". However, "it will get wet" is the better approach to take for safety's sake, and while you are gaining practical experience to see how VBs work with your body. However, some of us have been experimenting with how much we can wear under the VB- and how much exertion we can perform- without getting actually wet. Some of us have been pleasantly surprised a few times.

    Why would we even take such a chance? Convenience, especially when keeping all layers bone dry is not critical. IOW, if I get an extra layer of insulation wet, I am not likely to die of hypothermia. If so, often it can be much more convenient to just throw a VB over some still relatively thin layer, which might be over another thin layer. Or, just throw the VB over a single layer that is a bit thicker than I would normally wear under a VB.

    Though when doing so, I am often much warmer with that some what thin layer than I would be without that added VB(or, normally, unless I added another or thicker layer without a VB), I have been surprised at how mostly dry I have remained, even during some exercise. But it is tricky. The key seems to be monitoring for any signs of being too warm or sense of sweat and high humidity, and either slowing down, venting or both. Or, of course, if starting to feel too hot, simply removing the VB for a while. But if you are feeling really toasty warm while exercising on a cold day(even without a VB), sweat is probably about to make an appearance, at least for me.

    I have ended up surprisingly dry during some recent experiments with all of this. But, in earlier experiments, especially working hard in the yard or on fast hikes while not bothering to vent, I have also ended up soaked under the VB. But all that was wet was whatever layer(s) were under the VB, so I was still OK.

    Final consideration: even if wearing just the thinnest layer(or no layer other than a lined VB) or gambling by adding a little bit more under the VB, keep in mind that, as we all know, condensation occurs on cold surfaces, not warm. So if you choose to have any VB as the outer layer, it will be cold and more prone to condensation. Even though I have been getting away with that a lot lately, that is still the general rule. While a VB worn under other insulation is not likely to cause condensation, although sweat is still likely. Even more likely, since the extra insulation over a VB can really warm you up.

  7. #307
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    Thanks for the responses. I have some good trees out back to hang from so I have a safe area to experiment in. Supposed to be cold this weekend so I might try a vapor barrier and see how it goes.

  8. #308
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unionmanbirch View Post
    Thanks for the responses. I have some good trees out back to hang from so I have a safe area to experiment in. Supposed to be cold this weekend so I might try a vapor barrier and see how it goes.
    Sounds like a plan. Do you have much non VB experience to compare to? What kind of insulation will you be using? Anyway, good luck and have fun!

  9. #309
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneClick View Post
    Pretty good! My thin base layer and socks didn't get wet at all when using my VB liner. I was surprised by this, but could depend on the individual and weather. To be safe, just plan on that being your "sleep outfit" only, with something dry for daytime.

    For socks, I don't wear anything under the VB sock since the more layers, the more uncomfortable it is to walk. That plastic bag feeling against my skin surprisingly goes away almost immediately and don't notice it.

    I plan on using my TQ liner most winter nights, at least the first day, even if I'm only doing 2-3 nights. I just hate that damp "weak down" feeling when the quilts get damp. They may get some from the weather, but at least I can block my body vapor.

    Fascinating. Let me make sure I am reading you right: you are claiming you used a VB liner and you were not swimming in condensation and/or sweat? Did you have some unnoticed breathable section that allowed your body moisture to escape, or something? I thought that was nearly impossible? I thought you would just keep on producing vapor which would just keep on condensing which would make you wet and cold? Were you at least freezing?

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Sounds like a plan. Do you have much non VB experience to compare to? What kind of insulation will you be using? Anyway, good luck and have fun!
    I've been hanging a bit for the past year and a half. A couple dozen nights, six with temps below freezing. I have a 0 degree HG UQ and a 0 degree sleeping bag left over from my ground dwelling days. I also have an optimistically rated 20 degree TQ (a modified Costco quilt from Hang Tight on Etsy) which I've used as low as 23F but been cold even with a down jacket. I want to try the 20 degree TQ and see if I can stay warm. Extended forecast is for around 20.

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