It's amazing how that works. My feet are probably the sweatiest...or at least first to sweat. Last winter after hiking and working hard for about 5 hours there was NO actual liquid buildup inside the VB sock. Just clammy, steaming feet which were easy to dry off quick and cover with a nice dry sock for camp.Originally Posted by cmoulder
This bodes well for your Hazmat suit!
Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ~ Gen. George S Patton
It started as a joke but then I actually considered it. I think I'll start with the VB bag first and see how it goes. Looking forward to having a 100% dry (or close to it) TQ in the deep winter.This bodes well for your Hazmat suit!
About wearing some clothing under the VB. Assuming over heating and sweating can be avoided, I can probably usually get away with it, even if theoretically bad form. Since naturally, it is optimum to keep as much insulation as possible as dry as possible.
Recently, I guess in another thread about VBs, I posted this:So, though the "rule" that I have mostly followed (and the breaking of which has been the down fall of so many folks who try VBs and then hate them for life) is to have nothing under the VB (Except the minimum you must have for comfort, which will be sacrificed to dampness), clearly sometimes, maybe often, we can get away with it. And even if some moisture accumulates, if we are wearing synthetic items, it probably won't be all that bad.
And especially if there is a final layer of insulation worn over the VB- to keep the VB from reaching the dew point- we probably will get away with it, at least until we over heat and sweat. But, still, when I am discussing such with VB noobs, I tend to be dogmatic about "NOTHING under the VB except what you are willing to get wet", because they have this tendency to have the VB exposed to the cold, and end up with wet insulation, cold and irritated with VBs. My main concern is that they have a successful first experience. I figure they can figure out the nuances about how many ways they can use this advantageously after they have mastered the basic theory.
Another example of clothing on the skin side of the VB is my long running(and 100% successful) experiment with the HHSS. That space blanket is always under whatever insulation I have inside the hammock. It has even rarely been underneath some light insulation I have put under the hammock, on top of the space blanket. But the trick is: I have always(except when I messed up and paid the price) had the main insulation under the space blanket, keeping that VB warm. And over 13 years, with it being the only system I used backpacking and car/yard camping for 2 winter seasons, and occasional use after that, I have NEVER had a problem with moisture period.
Of course, that space blanket under the hammock is not quite the same thing as being sealed inside VB clothing or liners. But I think back on my 30 day NOLS course back in the mid 80s. Mind you, we did not come out of the wilderness boundary for 30 days, except for an hour or 2 on 4 days, just long enough to cross the wilderness boundary into the national forest where food was legally cached. Load it up and head right back into the wilderness. IOW, lots of opportunity for things to go wrong for many people who had never been in wilderness before. So, they not only would not allow down, they also would not allow GoreTex. All rain gear was coated nylon. I remember being very irritated with them about that, but those were there rules based on their experience. But here is the thing: summer temps were generally cool(sometimes warm) and windy, with a storm at the end of June bringing well over a foot of snow and a low of 24F. If we had on insulation, and if it was raining or snowing, then we had on VB rain gear over all of the insulation. We all had VBs as the outer cold layer over insulation. And guess what: we all made it. The main torso rain gear was a Cagoule(sp?), similar to a poncho, so there could be some air getting under it to help vent. You can see it hanging down loosely like a skirt in this picture:
Drying out the next day. That is me(in June 85) in the green on the right, with a breathable wind shell and 100% synthetic insulation. My partner has 100% wool, if memory serves.
So, we for the most part did not get our synthetic or wool insulation totally soaked or even noticeably wet with condensation or sweat even with this worse case scenario of VB clothing on the cold side of all of our SYNTHETIC(or wool) insulation. At least not wet enough to loose all loft.
Could we have been more comfy with WPB rain gear? I think so, assuming it also did it's job of keeping us dry for 30 straight days, which the instructors did not trust it to do. But did we die from hypothermia? No. Did it keep us dry from the outside and block the wind? Yes. Obviously, down clothing would have been a problem in this system. But one thing I wish I had the sense to put to use on that cold, shivering night after that all day hike and river crossing(Tyrolean Traverse) in the wind and snow. We all knew VB theory then, but no one used it. My rented(they would not allow me to take my down bag) beat up Hollow fill bag was probably not actually warm for a dry 35-40, much less a wet 24F under a tarp with pads on the snow, and I had a miserable night. One of just a couple of nights shivering over 36 years of back packing. But if I had just thought to put my coated nylon rain gear over my synthetic Long Johns, with all of my insulated clothing over that, all inside my synthetic bag, I am convinced I would have had a warm, comfy sleep, rather that the miserable night I had.
Last edited by BillyBob58; 10-30-2019 at 11:36.
Last winter I experimented with a thin silk layer under my VB top and bottom. I absolutely loved how the two performed together and until I get a set of Stevenson’s I’ll keep this system for cold weather.
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Goof info, TxAggie!
Oh, and my cheap VB is a $20 “Sweat suit” Walmart sells in their exercise department.
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Just got this in. Nice quality, good length, REALLY ugly khaki/tan color. The seam isn't sealed so I wonder if those thread holes will leak enough body moisture to matter? I think I'll try it first then seal them if necessary since that will be easy.
Slithering into this thing at 10PM at 4°? Big time suck. Waking up with totally dry quilts and gear? Will be amazing!
Not to shift the topic too much, but what's your solution for moisture from your breath condensing on the top of your TQ? Have you found that to be not much of a problem? I usually get quite a bit. It's most annoying when temps aren't cold enough for that moisture to freeze.
I do the "frost bib" that you'll see Shug and a lot of others use. Absolutely necessary otherwise the area around your chin will be SOAKED after just minutes. Instead of clipping it to the ridgeline, I just have it over my face, or on my chest like an actual baby's bib. Just to cover that area of the TQ. Works great!
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