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  1. #271
    cmc4free's Avatar
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    I switched away from the full-face balaclava. Now I use either an open-faced one, or sometimes this neck gaiter thing my wife bought for me.

    I've thought about trying a merino wool Buff.

  2. #272
    OneClick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmc4free View Post
    I've thought about trying a merino wool Buff.
    I passed on these for years, then finally got one. It's amazing! Thin and light but when it's bunched up on your neck it's a life saver in the cold wind. Plus you can pull it up to cover your mouth, nose or both. If you're wearing a beanie, that sort of holds it in place.

  3. #273
    cmc4free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneClick View Post
    I passed on these for years, then finally got one. It's amazing! Thin and light but when it's bunched up on your neck it's a life saver in the cold wind. Plus you can pull it up to cover your mouth, nose or both. If you're wearing a beanie, that sort of holds it in place.
    Yeah, I've thought I could wear one often, even in city-slicker mode. Fashionable enough but less cumbersome than a scarf, which I've never been a big fan of.

    Apologies for somewhat majorly derailing the VB discussion.

    btw - does anyone think the OP of the thread has EVER come back to read the now 28 pages of discussion? They never posted in this thread since.

  4. #274
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmc4free View Post
    Yeah, I've thought I could wear one often, even in city-slicker mode. Fashionable enough but less cumbersome than a scarf, which I've never been a big fan of.

    Apologies for somewhat majorly derailing the VB discussion.

    btw - does anyone think the OP of the thread has EVER come back to read the now 28 pages of discussion? They never posted in this thread since.

    Wow, that never occurred to me!

  5. #275
    OneClick's Avatar
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    I'm still undecided where to go this Thursday-Monday. Now I'm thinking about full on winter mode with temps down to 20 or lower. So I could be testing this VB quilt liner sooner than planned, but likely save it for colder than that.

  6. #276
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneClick View Post
    I'm still undecided where to go this Thursday-Monday. Now I'm thinking about full on winter mode with temps down to 20 or lower. So I could be testing this VB quilt liner sooner than planned, but likely save it for colder than that.
    Or, here is another fun test I have done a few times, whether on VBs or just various types of insulation: assuming safe bail out(but probably won't work if on the trail because you wouldn't want to mess up your trip with a bail out) what about testing with less insulation than normal? A lighter quilt, or less clothing worn than usual for you? That- trying less insulation- could equal the challenge of colder temps. Then just add your VB and see how it goes. Just for giggles and stuff.

    But, again, unless you had some layers with you that you are sure would all work together to get you where you need to be warmth wise, layers that could be handy in your pack, you probably wouldn't want to play that way on the trail. For risk of ruining a nice hike and camp. Still, when feasible, it is the type of thing I like to do, perhaps because I am crazy. Like the time I set my PB. I had warmer UQs and TQs and Pea Pods and clothing layers that I knew could easily get me to 6F, but where was the challenge in that? So I chose the HHSS which I considered good for me to about freezing, added 3 oz worth of kidney/torso pads and a sit pad under my feet, a light TQ rated at 20F but many folks have always felt that was way optimistic for this 20 oz long wide UQ. Plus an HH top cover(potential condensation problems), and light on the clothing layers compared to my norm. I ended up actually dry and toasty at 6f(plus wind chill, no tarp and there was some wind), my all time record, but clearly I could have gone colder. I really think significantly colder. I have been noticeably colder in that TQ in the teens or even high 20s when snowing, as well as had huge condensation on the TQ near my face. And I have been less warm in the HHSS at higher temps. I think my VB clothing was a significant contributor to that result. The frost bib helped also, and the over cover.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 11-05-2019 at 13:04.

  7. #277
    OneClick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Or, here is another fun test I have done a few times, whether on VBs or just various types of insulation: assuming safe bail out(but probably won't work if on the trail because you wouldn't want to mess up your trip with a bail out) what about testing with less insulation than normal? A lighter quilt, or less clothing worn than usual for you? That- trying less insulation- could equal the challenge of colder temps. Then just add your VB and see how it goes. Just for giggles and stuff.
    That would be interesting. I'm taking the 20° quilt set and all I ever wear (even down to my -16F record) is a set of long underwear. This time I'll just wear a thinner set. But I'll probably skip the VB and take it winter camping in January for a real solid test. If I were car camping, using the 40° TQ in this would be a nice test.

  8. #278
    Senior Member mab0852's Avatar
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    I've used a long neck gaiter since the early 80s, long before buffs were a thing. The merino buff is awesome! I keep one in my pack from fall through spring and switch to a lighter synthetic one during the summer. They are surprisingly good for keeping you warm and cool (when wet). I go balaclava mode when dew or frost point is an issue and while the buff is soaked/frozen, my quilt stays way drier. I've had mornings where the quilt in front of my face was literally ringing wet when I didn't take precautions. I always have the buff so I never considered a bib. I have thrown a t-shirt over my quilt if it wasn't cold enough to comfortably cover my mouth and nose. Pro tip: if you go the buff route, put on lip balm before you got to sleep and immediately when you wake up to prevent chapped lips. If it's well below freezing I even put a little lip balm on my nose as moisture/frost barrier. I've never really considered a full vapor barrier, but head and feet definitely make sense based on where I see/feel moisture accumulation in my quilt.

  9. #279
    OneClick's Avatar
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    Speaking of Buffs, I can't find mine! I really need it by tomorrow...$17 for another with free next day shipping on amazon. I think I'll chance it and just keep looking. It's probably somewhere weird like in a pocket of a jacket I rarely use. I hate losing things!

  10. #280
    cmc4free's Avatar
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    For those who have merino wool Buffs, do you have the lightweight or the midweight?

    I've seen they also have a Primaloft version:
    https://www.amazon.com/Buff-ThermoNe.../dp/B06Y1JZKM5

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