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  1. #11
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    I took a leaf from FIMB's notebook and stole yet another idea from Grizz, namely recessed spreader bars used with my PBH design. For the DIY fans out there, here's the latest configuration. I tried to keep the side angle consistent with my earlier PBHs because I'm a back sleeper, and I like the knee ridge. Well, it wasn't entirely successful, but it turns out that it produces a PBH that should appeal to side-sleepers, too. For the record, this design feels good to me too, even sleeping on my back. I'm coming to think of this PBH as "the bridge that GE hangers will like." It certainly validates the rule, "only steal from the best." No shoulder squeeze.

    In words: width 46" at head and foot, 30" at knee ridge, spreaders moved in 12" from ends of a 84" bed (note: there is a 6" band in the middle of this drawing showing the way the fabric was cut from a 90" piece to allow for 2" pleats at the knee ridge.) The photo shows the triangles marked to measure the shape for a matching UQ and/or included insulation layer. With the hammock occupied I measure the 121 triangle edges to get the basis for a 3-D shape that matches the hammock. This is optional, of course. One reason I call this the "Peoples Bridge Hammock" is that it's very comfortable with an inexpensive ccf pad and could be used as the foundation for a budget thru-hike. Head spreader: 37", Foot spreader: 25".

    In pictures:
    PBH December2018 (791x1024).jpg PBH measured (1024x681).jpg
    Last edited by WV; 12-21-2018 at 07:58.

  2. #12
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    I took a leaf from FIMB's notebook and stole yet another idea from Grizz, namely recessed spreader bars used with my PBH design. For the DIY fans out there, here's the latest configuration. I tried to keep the side angle consistent with my earlier PBHs because I'm a back sleeper, and I like the knee ridge. Well, it wasn't entirely successful, but it turns out that it produces a PBH that should appeal to side-sleepers, too. For the record, this design feels good to me too, even sleeping on my back. I'm coming to think of this PBH as "the bridge that GE hangers will like." It certainly validates the rule, "only steal from the best." No shoulder squeeze.

    In words: width 46" at head and foot, 30" at knee ridge, spreaders moved in 12" from ends of a 84" bed (note: there is a 6" band in the middle of this drawing showing the way the fabric was cut from a 90" piece to allow for 2" pleats at the knee ridge.) The photo shows the triangles marked to measure the shape for a matching UQ and/or included insulation layer. With the hammock occupied I measure the 121 triangle edges to get the basis for a 3-D shape that matches the hammock. This is optional, of course. One reason I call this the "Peoples Bridge Hammock" is that it's very comfortable with an inexpensive ccf pad and could be used as the foundation for a budget thru-hike. Head spreader: 37", Foot spreader: 25".

    In pictures:
    PBH December2018 (791x1024).jpg PBH measured (1024x681).jpg
    Recessed bars on a PBH is a nice combo!
    Also still in agreement that a bridge/CCF combo is probably the most versatile and affordable long distance hiking option out there.

    Still remain more impressed with your triangle mapping though to be honest.
    Nothing against Alex at Sheltowee or Brother Bones... but I still think you're the master of integrated insulation.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intimidator View Post
    Peppy gets all the good stuff. I was texting him yesterday trying to convince him to send me some
    Your turn to make Peppy jealous sooner than later...

    Round two may not be needed after all. First night went well and this did slot in about right- not quite as big as the Luxury/Big Guy- but just enough bigger than the medium to make a difference and slot in between them with no shoulder pinch and plenty enough room for a fella my size.
    JABB-Back.jpg

    Can't put up too many publicly as this is a brand new way to build bridges. And won't get too optimistic until the 100 day tests are done but so far so good.
    I'll probably sleep in this olive one for the next five nights just to be sure and send you the black one from this batch middle of next week.

    But it meets the goals of offering a wider model, cheaper construction and still enough pop to belly sleep with no negative back pressure.
    JABB-Belly.jpg

    One 'failure' at this point... It was liking a 14' apex to apex distance with not much room to improve it. I was able to get the medium sized 'Just a Bridge' to the 12' mark, but I can't figure a way just yet to get this down without screwing excess compression onto the bars. Since trying to keep this in the 225-250 range it's not worth pushing it... especially if keeping the CF pole option in mind. Always a trade off someplace unfortunately.

    On the plus side though...
    15.125 ounces with the RL and Carbon Fiber pole set is mighty impressive for a bridge this size with this many sleep position options.

    Perhaps more exciting... that makes it a hair under 20 ounces with 3/4" Aluminum poles.
    That's a very competitive weight without having to add in a $100 set of CF poles to do it.
    One of the primary goals was to produce something more affordable than my Premium models for those who don't need the very best but still want their money's worth. This is a nice step in that direction if it pans out.

    Much like Just a Bridge... I'll personally test it for 30 days or so and then work on expanding testing from there.
    But could potentially get this moving by late spring/summer if all goes well.

    Worth cracking a good one for... cheers!
    JABB- Cheers.jpg

  4. #14
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Recessed bars on a PBH is a nice combo!
    FIMB combined recessed spreaders with PBH shape first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Also still in agreement that a bridge/CCF combo is probably the most versatile and affordable long distance hiking option out there.

    Still remain more impressed with your triangle mapping though to be honest.
    Nothing against Alex at Sheltowee or Brother Bones... but I still think you're the master of integrated insulation.
    They both do phenomenal work - no question. I've just had more time to make mistakes and figure out solutions. Incidentally, this time I measured the crosswise lines before drawing in the triangles so they're more like great circle routes under the occupant's butt than a rectilinear grid. This means I can put elastic in the tops of the transverse baffles to hold the insulation against the sleeper without tugging it toward the head or foot. I think that will facilitate thicker insulation for a cold weather PBH. It should be useful when making separate underquilts that fit closely, too. I expect that Jeremy and Alex (and Brandon at Warbonnet) have all addressed this need in some way or other, so they shouldn't find my approach too surprising. Perhaps tedious, though.

  5. #15
    Senior Member monkeynono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Your turn to make Peppy jealous sooner than later...

    Round two may not be needed after all. First night went well and this did slot in about right- not quite as big as the Luxury/Big Guy- but just enough bigger than the medium to make a difference and slot in between them with no shoulder pinch and plenty enough room for a fella my size.
    JABB-Back.jpg

    Can't put up too many publicly as this is a brand new way to build bridges. And won't get too optimistic until the 100 day tests are done but so far so good.
    I'll probably sleep in this olive one for the next five nights just to be sure and send you the black one from this batch middle of next week.

    But it meets the goals of offering a wider model, cheaper construction and still enough pop to belly sleep with no negative back pressure.
    JABB-Belly.jpg

    One 'failure' at this point... It was liking a 14' apex to apex distance with not much room to improve it. I was able to get the medium sized 'Just a Bridge' to the 12' mark, but I can't figure a way just yet to get this down without screwing excess compression onto the bars. Since trying to keep this in the 225-250 range it's not worth pushing it... especially if keeping the CF pole option in mind. Always a trade off someplace unfortunately.

    On the plus side though...
    15.125 ounces with the RL and Carbon Fiber pole set is mighty impressive for a bridge this size with this many sleep position options.

    Perhaps more exciting... that makes it a hair under 20 ounces with 3/4" Aluminum poles.
    That's a very competitive weight without having to add in a $100 set of CF poles to do it.
    One of the primary goals was to produce something more affordable than my Premium models for those who don't need the very best but still want their money's worth. This is a nice step in that direction if it pans out.

    Much like Just a Bridge... I'll personally test it for 30 days or so and then work on expanding testing from there.
    But could potentially get this moving by late spring/summer if all goes well.

    Worth cracking a good one for... cheers!
    JABB- Cheers.jpg
    What's the weight and height limits with that one? I got your big guy bridge and love it!!

  6. #16
    Senior Member Peppy's Avatar
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    It’s as long as Bill’s other bridges for sure, I guess weight limits are more subject to material used. I’m testing 2 different ones as we speak!
    Hammock Tourist / Hammock Fiend / Hammock Therapist

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    FIMB combined recessed spreaders with PBH shape first.

    They both do phenomenal work - no question. I've just had more time to make mistakes and figure out solutions. Incidentally, this time I measured the crosswise lines before drawing in the triangles so they're more like great circle routes under the occupant's butt than a rectilinear grid. This means I can put elastic in the tops of the transverse baffles to hold the insulation against the sleeper without tugging it toward the head or foot. I think that will facilitate thicker insulation for a cold weather PBH. It should be useful when making separate underquilts that fit closely, too. I expect that Jeremy and Alex (and Brandon at Warbonnet) have all addressed this need in some way or other, so they shouldn't find my approach too surprising. Perhaps tedious, though.
    FIMB is Jeremy? Just finally put that together

    Agree there are plenty skilled at wrapping some insulation around a complicated shape. While it can take quite some time to sort out a winner, once that work is done it's repeatable. While it might feel tedious (and to an extent it is)… I think what your method does is rapidly produce a very accurate 'one off' design. Being able to map out and measure an individual design to an individual user and produce an effective insulation piece is the part I find unique. Where most of us get a good starting point and tweak things with a few rounds of prototypes... you can nail one very accurately on the first shot.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peppy View Post
    ItÂ’s as long as BillÂ’s other bridges for sure, I guess weight limits are more subject to material used. IÂ’m testing 2 different ones as we speak!
    For you and I... I'd agree. But someplace around 6' to 6'3" I think you'd find you fill this up. With the end caps built in, as opposed to adjustable ends, you're limited in the bed space you can use.

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeynono View Post
    What's the weight and height limits with that one? I got your big guy bridge and love it!!
    Chris, without digging up your emails, you're probably out of luck.
    Much like my other bridges, these will need the 100 night testing to establish weights. Realistically though, I design my stuff for comfort limits rather than failure points. With the Luxury and Big Guy serving those that need them, this series is meant to service 'average' users principally for backpacking. If weight or cost was not a major concern I'd still steer folks to my premium models in a heartbeat.


    The goals;

    Just a Bridge: for those roughly 6' 3" and under, 200lbs and under, and size men's medium shirt and under. Side sleepers of slightly larger sizes will probably be okay up to 250 ish structurally... but they likely would find the bridge too tight generally.

    Just a Bigger Bridge: Probably about 6'3", back sleepers with broader shoulders, men's XL shirt size and 250lbs and under.


    That said, I'm testing various combos of fabric, suspension, and poles. There's roughly 10 unique combos going right now in the 'Just a Bridge' testing that's just starting. Peppy has an UL version, and a 'regular' version.

    I can't express how happy and satisfied I am with how the Big Guy and Luxury models came about. I never intended or dreamed that's where things would go as my background is UL backpacking and speed hiking gear. Just the other day I received an email from a customer who's quality of life improved as a result of using one of my bridges... can't even begin to say how rewarding that feels. Especially as someone who has a little chronic pain. I just make gear, it's just gear... but sometimes it turns into a little more.

    But it's not cheap, and it's not as light as I can go. As the bigger models have stabilized I'm turning a little energy back towards backpackers as I've always believed that a bridge can be the core of a very functional lightweight kit. My micro bridge is a bit too silly, too fragile, too minimalist. These are more practical choices that could form the backbone of a very solid system. Much like the Big Guy addresses very specific needs, these will hopefully do the same. They are not quite as comfortable, or quite as versatile, or quite as good for those with pain issues as my premium bridges. However being able to deliver an affordable bridge that creeps right up to the edge of gathered end weights is a worthy goal too.

    A fine fella who set and pioneered fastest known times and I once tried very hard to break the 2lb sleep system barrier with a hammock based system... with these new models I'm turning full circle back to that challenge and may just crack it this time around. We game within ounces but it was the kind of system you'd only want to use for a record setting effort... this system is much more of an everyday ultralight system. But there is a reason I gave up on end bar models years ago so I don't want to get too far ahead of myself here either as this wouldn't be the first time I've watched a promising bridge go poof after 60-90 days.

  9. #19
    New Member aaronbartell's Avatar
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    I am a DIYer and don't necessarily have entirely new designs but have some pics of smaller mods I've tried in recent past. I do not know if these are new ideas.

    The below bridge doesn't have side cat cuts. The end result makes it very comfortable to sit perpendicular in the hammock. It also makes sewing on a bug net simpler.

    IMG_20170305_143339.jpg

    This one has a modified suspension connector and spreader-bar holder. I basically created a very short length of amsteel that has diamond knots on both ends and then put a sewn pocket (seat belt material) to hold the spreader-bar. The amsteel with diamond knots serves many purposes.

    1) to keep the spreader-bar pockets from sliding up the suspension.
    2) Makes it easy to detatch suspension from hammock so bug net/pod can be more easily added/removed.
    3) Allows the use of any type of spreader-bar including a stick found in the wild.
    4) Keeps spreader-bar ends from poking the tarp.

    IMG_20180601_172301.jpg


    Here I am modifying an existing Yukon Outfitters gathered-end hammock and converting it into a bridge. Very easy to do. Just sew the nylon straps to the sides and attach spreader-bar and suspension. I did this because I started out buying gathered-end but realized I much prefer bridge. The cool advantage is you have a relatively low cost bridge (~$30) with an integrated bug net. Note I now use the amsteel diamond knot approach instead of the steel eyelet as seen here.

    20160911_170150.jpg

    Here you see me with about 10yds of ripstop fresh from eBay. Before I started cutting into it I determined to see if I could get a flatter lay with an insanely long gathered-end hammock. This was 1.35oz ripstop and it sagged A LOT, so I chalk this up to a learning experience ([cough] failure).

    IMG_20170915_181309.jpg
    Bridge hammock. Mostly DIY for gear. Three sons camp with me (14yrs, 11yrs, 9yrs).

  10. #20
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    I made a new PBH with dimensions very similar to those of the hammock in post #12. (46" - 28" - 46" widths, same overall length and location of knee ridge, but the foot end spreader was moved in 6" so it's 18" from the end and 15" from the knee ridge pleat. This was done to reduce the side angle and thus raise the knee ridge, and it did. I slept in it last night, and find it very comfortable so far. This one is Dobby 1.9 oz polyester/nylon mix, so it stretches less than the 2.4 oz. nylon fabric of the first one. That's good for shoulder squeeze (none noticed), but it makes it necessary to use a pillow to fine-tune the support for head and neck. YMMV.

    I just measured the outside angles of these last two hammocks. The first, which has a very low ridge, but still enough that there's no knee hyperextension is 142°. This is a PBH for sometime side sleepers, I think. The new Dobby hammock has an angle of 123°. The fact that I find both of these hammocks comfortable suggests that there's a wide range of usable shapes for people to experiment with.


    Short term load testing was accomplished this morning when Freia added her 68 lbs. to my 155. No sign of strain in the hammock structure. My midsection and bladder, on the other hand ....

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