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  1. #11
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Just got this from them on FB: "Instead of the undercover to hold the pad in place there is now a second layer of fabric. The pad can be stored between the layers when not in use inside the compression sack and there is also room between the layers for additional insulation. The two layers of fabric are made of breathable fabric. The pad is the same thickness as the supershelter pad but it is wider. If you need further clarification, please let us know.".

    Re: the space blanket: "Tom says that feedback from customers shows that the pad is not absorbent so moisture will settle on the underside of the pad protecting the sleeping bag if the reflective blanket is underneath the foam pad.". OK, sounds crazy to me, in fact I do not believe that is going to work out. The original system has the wind and water proof outer shell, with the VB of the space blanket KEPT WARM and thus keeping the minimal(r zero) condensation out of the under cover and insulation. Always worked exactly as theory would indicate for me. Now, the space blanket will be on the cold side, sounds like there will be a lot more condensation. My only interest in this new system(EDIT: at the moment, but who knows, I may be missing something, it might work) would be the pad, which looks like it is shaped in a way to make it easier to keep the pad on the diagonal, and it might be wider. But who knows, the system might still work.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 01-11-2019 at 14:13.

  2. #12
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    So I have expressed some doubts or concerns or lack of understanding with this new system, but I should add this: I have mentioned a guy that does not post anymore(I have not seen his posts anyway) who used nothing but the basic HHSS 1 pad system- plus whatever thick layers he wore and a Marmot 15F down bag- in windy condition well below zero. He insisted on using the space blanket UNDER the HH pad. I can't remember his reasons on that, but seems like maybe something about like what HH is saying here- keeps the condensation on the other side of the pad, which apparently is not very absorbent. And in his case- at those minus zero temps- the condensation would be frozen and he would just shake it off of the pad the next morning. It sounded crazy to me, when he could just keep the condensation on the warm side of the pad and space blanket- where there should therefore be far less condensation. But, like so many people, he was mainly concerned with keeping condensation out of his top insultion. He was concerned with condensation from his back working it's way into his clothing and sleeping bag. But, that has not been a problem for me as low as +6F, and at least a few other folks here that have used this system. And he got plenty of top side condensation anyway, as this guy used to report feeling ice in the top layer down of his sleeping bag!

    Regardless, he seemed to think it worked for him. With his worn layers, he managed to be warm enough well below zero plus some horrendous wind chills. Obviously a very warm sleeper compared to me. But, it just points out that this new approach by HH might work for some people. It would certainly work for me foe when I am already using VB clothing, then the space blanket would just be needed to block wind.

    Ann Hennessy informed me that the outer shell has a light DWR, to provide some extra protection. But this will obviously be different from the abilities of their HHSS sil-nylon UC. It will be interesting to see how it works for some folks.

  3. #13
    psyculman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psyculman View Post
    I e-mailed Hennessy about the bottom of the new 4 Season system, am waiting for a reply.

    Maybe I missed something, but it looks like the new 4 Season hammock is the usual oxford fabric, with no vapor barrier.

    In sub freezing temperatures, I have never had under condensation that was objectionable. A little, yes. In the grey OCF SS pad, or folds of a insulated Big Ag. Air Core pad. But most of the time none. And that is both with vapor barrier, and with out vapor barrier. Not saying it doesn't happen.
    This just in:
    Received a prompt reply from Hennessy Hammock people, the afore mentioned new double bottom hammock/ Super Shelter is oxford fabric thus, not wind proof, as with silnylon.
    Never more than one man left behind, so far !

  4. #14
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psyculman View Post
    This just in:
    Received a prompt reply from Hennessy Hammock people, the afore mentioned new double bottom hammock/ Super Shelter is oxford fabric thus, not wind proof, as with silnylon.
    Nor waterproof, but breathable, until you add the space blanket at least. It is DWR, I am told.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by psyculman View Post
    This just in:
    Received a prompt reply from Hennessy Hammock people, the afore mentioned new double bottom hammock/ Super Shelter is oxford fabric thus, not wind proof, as with silnylon.
    Now I get what they're doing. With the Super Shelter, I push the undercover aside for cooling breezes on hot nights. With a double layer, you can't do that, so it has to be breathable. The space blanket blocks convection like the silnylon. I certainly see the potential for condensation this way, but let's see.

  6. #16
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    response from Tom H

    I had been e-mailing back and forth with Ann Hennessy about my thoughts on the new 4 season system vs the older HHSS system in use for years, especially my questions about the new positioning for the space blanket. I just got this e-mail from Tom H., and he said I was free to share it. I thought it was pretty interesting, so I think I will. Some of the things he says might explain some of the different results people have had with this system. Any way, here is what he wrote to me:

    Hi William

    Nice to hear from you. Really appreciate your support over the years for the SS concept. Twenty years ago, many "experts" told the forum that radiant reflectors wouldn't work. In recent years, even Columbia has patented breathable radiant reflective clothing and sleeping bags. Sometimes, these things take time.


    Over the years we have received reports from different users of the SS. There are many factors which produce differing results. Some people sleep hot, some sleep cold. Some perspire more than others. Some don't change position during the night to allow moist air to rise and evaporate off the mesh. The ambient temperature, humidity and the rating of the sleeping bag are all part of the equation.
    Even the sleeping bag manufacturers are reluctant to say that a 30 degree bag will definitely keep you warm at 30 degrees. There are too many other factors to consider.


    For efficiency, I basically still agree with you about keeping the Space Blanket as close as possible to your body. Not touching the SB will radiate the most heat. A small air space, even the air spaces between fabric fibers is often enough for it to work. However if temperature rises too much, perspiration occurs. With the SB, the solution is to remove the SB or blow off heat by venting your bag like a bellows but you must be awake to do this.


    What I found when sleeping without a SB is that the moisture coming off your body will pass through the porous foam pad and condense on the inside surface of the UnderCover and slowly evaporate through the very lightly DWR coating of the bottom fabric and away from the absorbent sleeping bag. The light DWR coating prevents blowing rain and splashed rain from penetrating from outside.


    We also have had reports that putting the space blanket under the open cell foam pad solved the problem of damp sleeping bag but with less efficient radiation. We used this info in the instructions because it is a better all round solution to moisture.


    The next step for HH in the evolution of dry, comfortable nights rest is BrEaThAbIlItY I have been a huge fan of SOL breathable heat reflecting fabric that they use in their SOL Bivy. I have tested this Bivy and believe it is the best solution available. I recommend getting one of these bivys for anyone having issues with moisture. We are awaiting samples from SOL to replace the space blanket. It will be offered as an accesssory for both of the new 4Season hammocks in our next production and all four of the SuperShelter accessory insulation systems.



    For any one interested in getting one of these new 4Season hammocks from this production, we will send a free SOL breathable heat reflecting UnderSheet when we get them in stock. They will clip into position on top of the breathable open cell foam UnderPad. This is a major breakthrough for lightweight, warm, dry comfort in hammocks.
    Thanks for asking your question William and feel free to post this on your forum if you think others would like to hear my thoughts.


    Cheers, Tom

  7. #17
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPCPAT View Post
    Now I get what they're doing. With the Super Shelter, I push the undercover aside for cooling breezes on hot nights. With a double layer, you can't do that, so it has to be breathable. The space blanket blocks convection like the silnylon. I certainly see the potential for condensation this way, but let's see.
    How well do you do with your HHSS? Temp wise? Condensation problems?

  8. #18
    oldpappy's Avatar
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    Tom's very informative note is very interesting, thank you for pursuing and sharing this.

    FYI stuff:
    I don't normally have a moisture issue, so to/for me it seems the new 2 layer HHSS system would not be a good fit due to his quiote " We also have had reports that putting the space blanket under the open cell foam pad solved the problem of damp sleeping bag but with less efficient radiation."

    I've found by being inside a mummy bag (vs using a TQ) when below about 40F provided me with the most comfort. My SB is synthetic so there is some bottom insulation when compressed as well as radiation heat from the SOL SB I use.

    The only moisture issues I have had were 1) a calm cold night at 100% humidity (with ice fog) I had a couple tablespoons of water in the under cover, and 2) I used a GG Closed Cell pad as supplement insulation and the 36X30"CCF pad held the undercover sides open - I was on my side and my breath entered the UC and condensated/froze on the side of the UC = self inflicted issue.

    Now I do have a simple mod I am trying this winter with good results so far (only tested for 2 nights so far). I took a large ~18" soft side cooler and disassembled it. The insulation is thin flexible foam with foil on one side - very light. I placed this thin light insulation on top of my OCF pad and under the SB and so far got to 30F = 10F better than my normal 40F comfort range.. I also made a 'kidney pad' from an 18" square and placed it right on my back (elastic on fleece sleep pants holds it in place). This worked great too.

    Enough for now, Time to go shovel snow.
    Last edited by oldpappy; 01-14-2019 at 10:37.
    Enjoying the simple things in life -
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  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    How well do you do with your HHSS? Temp wise? Condensation problems?
    Short version, it's a great 3 season solution. I've used it from 70 ish down to about freezing and never had detectable condensation. I'm a cold sleeper who doesn't sweat much.

    I use it 3 seasons, mostly car camping for work, but whatever nights in the woods I can. Above 80 ish, I don't use it at all. Around 70, I add the silnylon bottom. Around 60, I add the pad, around 50 I add the SB (a heavier, quieter multiuse SOL SB) Along with a 20 degree topquilt that keeps me warm and snug to the high 30's, below that it's warm enough, but not comfortable. Supplemented it with a fleece blanket from Wal Mart, It might be warm and snug down into the teens, but I already went home.

  10. #20
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPCPAT View Post
    Short version, it's a great 3 season solution. I've used it from 70 ish down to about freezing and never had detectable condensation. I'm a cold sleeper who doesn't sweat much.

    I use it 3 seasons, mostly car camping for work, but whatever nights in the woods I can. Above 80 ish, I don't use it at all. Around 70, I add the silnylon bottom. Around 60, I add the pad, around 50 I add the SB (a heavier, quieter multiuse SOL SB) Along with a 20 degree topquilt that keeps me warm and snug to the high 30's, below that it's warm enough, but not comfortable. Supplemented it with a fleece blanket from Wal Mart, It might be warm and snug down into the teens, but I already went home.
    Sounds about spot on per my own experiences. But, when you say " high 30's, below that it's warm enough, but not comfortable. Supplemented it with a fleece blanket from Wal Mart, It might be warm and snug down into the teens, but I already went home", are you talking about the TQ( I think you are ) or the HH under insulation?

    I'm pleased to add yet 1 more to the "never had detectable condensation." category. There are more than a few of us out there, though I think many- or at least some- have a hard time believing that.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 01-14-2019 at 18:06.

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