Pads & Underquilts join forces

[sidneyhornblower]

Any thoughts/experiences to share?

Maybe not exactly analogous, but I've been experimenting with CCF pads in my bridge hammock paired with an underquilt. It hasn't been cold enough to stress test, but my very limited experience is that the pad does help. I'm not using a complete pad, only a short section in my homemade SPE to cover my torso/butt area and kill any cold spots that come from the UQ sagging away from the hammock body.

The SPE has small wings to keep my shoulders covered. I think the SPE fabric covering the CCF pad may help with condensation slightly but I haven't been out in anything lower than 25 degrees F yet, and that only once. The other test was in temps that didn't drop below freezing, say about 35 or so. In both of those conditions I think the underquilt alone would have been enough, but the pad certainly didn't hurt anything.

[oldpappy]

I've used 30" X 36" CCF pad inside the hammock with various under insulation (3/4 Jarbridge UQ and Hennessy SS). I always sleep inside a decent spelling bag with a warm bag liner.
The pads help but:
It is even more important to protect your UQ from the breeze robbing the heat (the pad may cause a gap or path along the sides for air to travel)
I 'always' covered the pads with fleece or a flannel sheet to keep/capture the condensation away from my sleeping bag.

So, 2 stacked pads alone = 22F and I was praying for the sum to rise (not comfortable)
1 pad and a 25F 3/4 UQ (with a DIY tyvek sock for the wind) I was comfortable at 20F.
Haven't tried it lower than that.


Other ideas:
Hot water bottle works wonders if you will have a fire.
Vapor Barriers might be an option if you have an interest and the time to test/learn about them.
If you are car camping, make a pod for your hammock from a sleeping bag. See Shug's video on his sleeping bag pod.

[Tikker]

Aren’t there hammocks like the Amok and 90 degree hammocks that use pads and air mattresses to hold their form?

yup, and haven't had condensation issues with my synmat 9

I've also not had it out at -25c, maybe -10 at the coldest

[ocnlogan]

Maybe not exactly analogous, but I've been experimenting with CCF pads in my bridge hammock paired with an underquilt. It hasn't been cold enough to stress test, but my very limited experience is that the pad does help. I'm not using a complete pad, only a short section in my homemade SPE to cover my torso/butt area and kill any cold spots that come from the UQ sagging away from the hammock body.

The SPE has small wings to keep my shoulders covered. I think the SPE fabric covering the CCF pad may help with condensation slightly but I haven't been out in anything lower than 25 degrees F yet, and that only once. The other test was in temps that didn't drop below freezing, say about 35 or so. In both of those conditions I think the underquilt alone would have been enough, but the pad certainly didn't hurt anything.

I've used 30" X 36" CCF pad inside the hammock with various under insulation (3/4 Jarbridge UQ and Hennessy SS). I always sleep inside a decent spelling bag with a warm bag liner.
The pads help but:
It is even more important to protect your UQ from the breeze robbing the heat (the pad may cause a gap or path along the sides for air to travel)
I 'always' covered the pads with fleece or a flannel sheet to keep/capture the condensation away from my sleeping bag.

So, 2 stacked pads alone = 22F and I was praying for the sum to rise (not comfortable)
1 pad and a 25F 3/4 UQ (with a DIY tyvek sock for the wind) I was comfortable at 20F.
Haven't tried it lower than that.


Other ideas:
Hot water bottle works wonders if you will have a fire.
Vapor Barriers might be an option if you have an interest and the time to test/learn about them.
If you are car camping, make a pod for your hammock from a sleeping bag. See Shug's video on his sleeping bag pod.

yup, and haven't had condensation issues with my synmat 9

I've also not had it out at -25c, maybe -10 at the coldest

We're going to be snowshoeing into the camping area. Its not far (~3mi iirc), but still trying not to bring the whole kitchen sink so to speak. Which means a secondary entire sleeping bag to use as a pod out of the question at the moment. I'll have a bottle with me, and I am assuming we'll have a fire, or stove of some sort, so I should be able to warm up water (which I've done before with success). Also, I'll be in a winter tarp with doors, so that should help with the wind, at least taking away the worst of it. I probably should have mentioned that before.

Sounds like the consensus is that its likely not going to hurt anything (other than potentially more condensation, which I've not had any real problems with in the past ), and "should" likely make it warmer. As I said, I've used the pad alone down to ~30f (but was getting cool). So I'm hoping that it will add at least 5-10f to the UQ, which should cover the lower temperature nights. Additionally, the UQ I'll be borrowing is using a clew suspension, which I'm hoping will be will help it conform to the shape of the pad better.

I've also got a CDT that I may be able to stuff into the pack as an extra insurance policy. Guess I should start test fitting the pack...

Thanks all .

[Hanging in sweden]

I have the DD polyester UQ & since I’ve switched hammock from Dd travel to Dd xl frontline I’ve had major set up issues. Last time I was out it went down to 5*C and my UQ was nowhere near touching my hammock and I froze my *** off. In the night I was so uncomfortably cold I had to get up and inflate my exped synmat 7 & use that instead. THEN I was warm . I’ve heard from a friend who sleeps on the snow in-15*C with the pad with no issues ( which is why I bought it) . I’ve spoken back and forth with DD and it’s come to light get the tightening toggles were faulty therefore not giving the UQ the huggability required ...

I’ll be following this thread with vigor but I think If your pad is good enough a UQ will be surplus.

[mad_matze]

I’ve used a pad in a double layer hammock with a simple diy polyfil UQ, once upon a time on a one week long trip. The CCF pad mostly kept me warm, but the UQ wrapped up around my shoulders, and added that little extra oomph of warmth where the hammock wrapped around said shoulders, and I would have gotten chilly. That said, I recall two exceptionally humid, and cool (40*f) nights, when I was rather damp on the underside. I never got cold per se, but it wasn’t the most comfortable. I suspect the moisture had to do with convection, dew points, and other scientific juju.

After that trip I built some diy synthetic quilts, and now have all down quilts. I won’t go the pad route again.

I recently did the exact same thing. Used a good inflatable pad underneath me for warmth and a 3/4 UQ for comfort around the shoulders in a 40* night. Super cozy, especially if you like the feeling of the pad. Btw in my experience I never had any condensation so far when I used an actual synthetic sleeping bag between the pad and me.

[BillyBob58]

Bumping this thread, as I've got the same question.

I've got a winter camping trip with the scouts coming up in a week and a half. Temps are likely going to be in the 5-20f for the overnight low.

I'm going to be borrowing a buddies DIY UQ, which has a target temp rating of ~15-20f. However, as I'm new to the area, and to snow camping around here, I'll also be bringing my klymit pad as well, in case I can't find a place to hang, and have to sleep in a tent with the other leader. Now, I've used the pad alone as in temps down to ~30f in the hammock multiple times, where I was starting to get a bit cool, but still managed to sleep fairly well, so I'm no stranger to pads. I'm wondering if adding the pad inside the hammock as I normally do (I don't own an UQ yet) would be a net positive, or negative. It seems like it should be better than just the UQ alone, but I'm not 100% sure, which is why I'm checking.

Any thoughts/experiences to share?

Again, I'll be carrying the pad either way, so its not really an "extra" thing to carry. Same with the tent. The "leaders" tent is coming along no matter what. I'd just prefer to hammock if at all possible, as I've not done it in temps this low before.

I've got top insulation more or less sorted (20f bag + my ~35f TQ). I'm just wanting to be prepared enough for the bottom insulation that I don't freeze to death if we hit 0f.

Thanks for the help .

Assuming proper set up- and that might be a big assumption I suppose- without any question whatsoever you will be much warmer by adding the pad to the UQ OR adding the UQ to the pad, than using either one alone. Honestly, if you can escape excess condensation( and I always can so far, and apparently so can you so far, right?), and if you have already been more or less OK down to around 30F with the pad, how could adding an UQ make that worse, or more likely how could it fail to actually make things better? I simply don't think it could fail to help. And I'm sure it could not make it worse. If it was me doing it, it would make it much better, but admittedly people vary. But basically, these things are additive. If you have X amount of warmth on a pad when it is 20F, adding an UQ- even if the pad somehow keeps the UQ from achieving perfect fit and thus from achieving optimum function- it is still almost certain to be better than nothing at keeping the maximum cold air from contacting the bottom of your pad. Anything reducing the amount of cold air that contacts the bottom of your pad will reduce the speed at which your body heat is able to escape you and the pad out to the cold air, and thus increase your warmth. Adding either another pad or an UQ that is even close to correct fit is going to increase the R value and increase the warmth. Maybe by a whole bunch. I'd say it is near impossible that it won't help at least some.

Conversely, what about adding the pad to an UQ, no change, better or worse relative to the UQ alone? Well, that is trickier. But still, depending on some variables, especially if the pad is inside the hammock, it should be a big help. I can tell you that over the years, especially in the early days when folks were trying to figure out how to use UQs that were not differential cut- which meant if you pulled them too snug the loft got compressed- many a miserable night, frozen butt and back was saved by adding a pad inside the hammock. But how could it make it actually worse? Well, especially if the pad is wide, it might interfere with the fit of the UQ, reducing the optimum warmth of the UQ. if the pad is not actually all that warm, I suppose it could be a net loss. But standard width( 20") pads are likely not any wider than your body, and thus are unlikely to interfere with fit unless you try to put them between the hammock and UQ. But, I feel confident that if my UQ was not getting the job done for whatever reason- quilt not warm enough, wind not blocked well enough, quilt damp, imperfect fit allowing drafts and/or gaps, whatever: adding a pad which is pretty warm all by itself is almost certain to be a big improvement.

Here is another reason why it will help: virtually all pads are vapor barriers(VB). Hence the complaints of some fols about condensation or sweat: the vapor or sweat is prevented by the pad from being soaked up by the down UQ. But, VBs increase warmth by reducing evaporative cooling and keeping any form of body moisture out of the down UQ. Meaning your down stays drier through the night, and hence it stays warmer. Even without the added insulation of a pad, I have long used VB clothing and/or a space blanket VB underneth my hammock on top of all under insulation. This has invariably- for me-resulted in an immediately noticed increase in warmth(sometimes by a LOT), plus kept my insulation much drier thus warmer over time. By adding a pad- assuming you are one of the lucky ones without significant condensation issues- you are going to get some of those VB benefits.

Lastly, that pad will reduce to about zero the amount of wind- if you have a less than perfect tarp pitch- that makes it past your down UQ to reach your skin. Bottom line: if the UQ is not warm enough, the pad will increase warmth, and if the pad is not warm enough, a properly fitted UQ will also increase warmth. IMO.

Do you have time to test?If so, just put it to the test for yourself! Get out there in some temp where you are feeling a bit cool with that pad. Then add the UQ, paying close attention to fit. Then you are either warmer or your not. Then repeat test starting with UQ, and if cold add the pad. Then you will know.

yup, and haven't had condensation issues with my synmat 9

I've also not had it out at -25c, maybe -10 at the coldest

Using a Neo Air All Season 4.9 R-value in a Hammock Tent 90, from 25F up to the 50s, I have not yet suffered any condensation and was quite warm.. Using it at hotter temps this summer, I did start sweating on it. But I also sweat with no insulation under me in those temps.

[Tikker]

Using a Neo Air All Season 4.9 R-value in a Hammock Tent 90, from 25F up to the 50s, I have not yet suffered any condensation and was quite warm.. Using it at hotter temps this summer, I did start sweating on it. But I also sweat with no insulation under me in those temps.

yup, only time I've had a puddle on my mat was a 90+ afternoon nap at the lake

[Styles2281]

I used a ccf pad. I wouldn't invest another penny in a "better" pad, especially when I see the retail price of a Klymit Insulated Static V pad ($84.95).

https://www.klymit.com/insulated-sta...eping-pad.html

I could use that money to get an actual underquilt.

Luckily, we got our insulated Static V on sale through REI, so it was significantly cheaper. I've only used it a couple of times in the hammock, but it stayed better than I thought it would and I slept better (stayed warmer) than I thought I would with no real condensation. It has the added bonus of being a travel mattress for our son when we are doing general hotel travel/visiting family, etc, so it was a worthwhile pick up for us with many uses.

[BillyBob58]

Luckily, we got our insulated Static V on sale through REI, so it was significantly cheaper. I've only used it a couple of times in the hammock, but it stayed better than I thought it would and I slept better (stayed warmer) than I thought I would with no real condensation. It has the added bonus of being a travel mattress for our son when we are doing general hotel travel/visiting family, etc, so it was a worthwhile pick up for us with many uses.

I assume the OP question, and several of the answers, are specifically regarding using pads with gathered end hammocks. But, just as a general FYI, many hammocks are now commonly used that work MUCH better with pads, or UQs, or both together. The big change came with the JRB Bear Mountain Bridge back about 2007 or 08, then the WBRR. Most used these with UQs with great success, but some used them with pads and with actual comfort reported, with or without an UQ at the same time. There were even some who not only said the hammocks were plenty comfy with pads, but were even more comfy with a pad than without. Then more recently came the 90º hammocks which either required a pad or for most were most comfy with a pad. One of which could add an INNER quilt with or without a pad. And now most recently what seems to me as a variation on the bridge hammock, the Haven Tent, I think a certain type of pad is required. I'm not sure if an UQ could be added to that one, but I bet with a little modding it could be. I imagine with 5 to 8 R value pads and an UQ, there is almost no limit to how low one could go. Really, even with just the right pad or stacked pads, probably any temps that 99% of us are going to try and sleep in can be nicely handled with pads.

We should not forget when, back in the early days, Kwpapke joined Shug on one of the first extreme winter trips recorded here. And what did he use at minus 27F? A Hennessy Super shelter, with it's 5/8" thick OCF pad and the usual space blanket, augmented by a summer down sleeping bag down under, augmented by a thin summer weight CCF pad under the HH pad. Toasty and comfy.