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  1. #21
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    OlTrailDog, I know you have many nights experience and I appreciate your thoughts.

  2. #22
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstenberg1 View Post
    OlTrailDog, I know you have many nights experience and I appreciate your thoughts.
    Hope Y'all don't mind me reviving my old thread, last posted to last March. We have been through a heck of a heatwave here- not so much record high temps, though a few of those in Sept and first of Oct- but mainly just the heat(with drought, it has been dry and desert like) hanging on extra long. But it has finally cooled off significantly, plus a bit of moisture, so I have been able to get out and play again, and have been experimenting with both pads and UQs.

    I agree OlTrailDog is our main source of info regarding this hammock style, and especially info about pad use with it. I'm thinking he has at least as much, and probably more, experience with this hammock in cold weather. After all: he lives in Montana!

    I really like the Neoair All Season 4.9 R-value pad in this hammock. I just wish it was 1/2" thicker so that I would not have that variable of possibly reducing my contact with the pad and that possibly causing a reduction in warmth. Which of course I can solve by adding something puffy on top of a pad of any thickness, or adding 1/2" of CCF pad at least under the most critical areas. But, I would prefer not having to bother with that, hence I would prefer a pad at least 3" thick. Looking back at my OP, it looks like it is going to be workable in the 25+ range, at least. Looking like the 25F was going to be close to the limit of the pad by itself in this deep pad pocket. I don't see it in this thread, but I do remember adding a jacket into the leg area which took care of the cold spots I reported under my legs when I went fetal.

    I have not experienced any problems with these lt to rt baffles, other than difficulty getting the inflated pad in as it does not flex well from lt to right. But it does flex well length wise, making getting in and out easier. But, I sometimes notice some slight knee hyperextension when fully inflated. A knee pillow has solved this. OlTrailDog has done some mods to solve that problem. But I have also noticed this, for when I don't need a closed bug net: I can stick my feet over the end of the pad, a little or a lot, feet outside the hammock. This causes a little or more flex in this NeoAir pad, 100% solving any knee strain. It seems quite comfy short term testing. The back of my calves seem insulated by the pad, but I can't tell if there would be enough pressure to be a problem over the hours. It is fine short term. My TQ foot box is lofted all around my feet top and bottom, so I think they would be warm. Any one else tried such as this?

  3. #23
    Don't get why you link thickness to insulation - because it's in the pad sleeve and not worth enough contact to the hammock?
    Put the mat right into the hammock, that's what I'm doing wonder years as I'm having the lighter version without the sleeve anyways.

    There's the sea to summit etherlite pad which is much thicker, though has a much lower R value - don't think you'd win much with swapping.

  4. #24
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hang-loose View Post
    Don't get why you link thickness to insulation - because it's in the pad sleeve and not worth enough contact to the hammock?
    Put the mat right into the hammock, that's what I'm doing wonder years as I'm having the lighter version without the sleeve anyways.

    There's the sea to summit etherlite pad which is much thicker, though has a much lower R value - don't think you'd win much with swapping.
    Well, generally speaking when looking at insulation, with all other things being equal(same material, etc.), thickness = insulation, though apparently all other are not equal with these Neoair pads, since more than one(all?) are 2.5" thick, but they have different insulation ratings. But, yes, the pad sleeve is the factor. And not so much because it is in the sleeve, but because the sleeve gaps down below the hammock enough to hold a 3" pad and still not raise center of gravity. Which means with a less than 3" thick pad, I might not - as you say - make full contact with the pad. And/or, cold air might be able to travel down the valleys between the baffles if not firmly on the pad. The thinner the pad, the more the potential problem. And the HT90 designer mentions all of this, and suggests placing something puffy(like a thick jacket or whatever) on the pad to fill those potential gaps if it becomes a problem. But, like I said in the OP, I have been plenty warm so far testing into the 30s, even the mid 20s.

    And I suppose that if I was not warm enough, I could also just do what you say: just put the pad on the inside of the hammock. You say that is working OK for you?
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 10-14-2019 at 08:54.

  5. #25
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    BillyBob58, I appreciate your continued feedback. One pad to look into is the Nemo Tensor Insulated. It comes in regular wide, is 3" thick, and weights 19 ounces. Only problem is that no R-value is listed for Nemo sleeping pads.

  6. #26
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstenberg1 View Post
    BillyBob58, I appreciate your continued feedback. One pad to look into is the Nemo Tensor Insulated. It comes in regular wide, is 3" thick, and weights 19 ounces. Only problem is that no R-value is listed for Nemo sleeping pads.
    thanks! 19 oz for 3" thicK? That sounds good, wish it had a listed R value!

  7. #27
    You'll never get the same insulation performance with the pad in the sleeve than on the hammock, wouldn't bother, there will always be cold bridges.

    Plus - I'd challenge that more thickness = more air = better insulation.
    The air needs to be warmed to insulate - and you do that with your body heat - which is consumed by the pad to warm up.
    As soon as warm air is lost/cooled (and that happens easier in a hammock hanging in cold air and wind than on ground if you've ever tried a pad in both in similar sleeping conditions) you lose the warm air insulation barrier and have to re-heat it.
    Thicker = more surface = more surface for the cold air around to cool down the inner one.
    All that counts are the insulation layers, be it down, apex or reflective foild such as in therm a rest mats.

  8. #28
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hang-loose View Post
    You'll never get the same insulation performance with the pad in the sleeve than on the hammock, wouldn't bother, there will always be cold bridges.

    Plus - I'd challenge that more thickness = more air = better insulation.
    The air needs to be warmed to insulate - and you do that with your body heat - which is consumed by the pad to warm up.
    As soon as warm air is lost/cooled (and that happens easier in a hammock hanging in cold air and wind than on ground if you've ever tried a pad in both in similar sleeping conditions) you lose the warm air insulation barrier and have to re-heat it.
    Thicker = more surface = more surface for the cold air around to cool down the inner one.
    All that counts are the insulation layers, be it down, apex or reflective foild such as in therm a rest mats.
    What do you think about what Hammock Tent designer recommends, placing a puffy layer- whatever is not being worn for sleeping- on top of the pad to fill any gaps and valleys between the pad's peaks/ridges?

    Plus, I'm not sure about your point re: thickness. Are you saying that 3" of down( or 3" of pad) will not be warmer than 1.5" of down or 1.5"of pad, for some reason? Or are you saying something else?

  9. #29
    Well, sure biting even more into the sleeve then just the pad sure helps filling out up, but - do you have enough stuff with you to fill such a long sleeve? I don't. Plus that's just fighting an issue that the sleeve creates in the first place.

    Regarding the other point - nope. More insulation, e.g down will be more warm
    But for an uninsulated air pad, more air is just more air.
    Though I'm a hammock it will always perform worse than on ground

  10. #30
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hang-loose View Post
    Well, sure biting even more into the sleeve then just the pad sure helps filling out up, but - do you have enough stuff with you to fill such a long sleeve? I don't. Plus that's just fighting an issue that the sleeve creates in the first place.

    Regarding the other point - nope. More insulation, e.g down will be more warm
    But for an uninsulated air pad, more air is just more air.
    Though I'm a hammock it will always perform worse than on ground
    OK, got it- now I understand what you were saying. And for sure a thicker non-insulated would not help compared to a thinner one, just more air. (BTW, Hang-loose, are you by any chace using one of these, a HT90 hammock with pad sleeve? Actually, I think you are using an HT90 with no pad pocket, right?)

    But of course, I am only considering insulated pads. And with this hammock, if the pad is thick enough to fully fill the pad pocket, 3" or over and actually raising the inside hammock layer 1/2 inch or more, at that point you are truly laying directly, with full pressure/body weight, upon the pad. The only difference is- in addition to whatever clothing you were wearing, you would now have 1 extra layer of extremely thin nylon between your body and the pad. But not supporting any weight, all your weight would be on the pad.

    But my issue is: the inflatable insulated and extremely warm pad I have, and otherwise quite like, is only 2.5" thick, so it won't quite fill that pad pocket, so my weight is not 100% on the pad. Although, it is still pretty solid on there, as evidenced by having been pretty warm in the mid 20s.

    But, your point is correct about maybe not having a layer with me- extra clothing- that I would not need to be sleeping in, available to fill that slight gap and possibly make this pad even warmer in this hammock. Car camping, no problem, but back packing, maybe not. But, I will always have a sit pad with me- usually torso sized- that I can slip in there for 1/2" additional thickness. And really, the way my systems usually work out, I have some layers for hiking or sitting around camp, that I don't usually need for top warmth while sleeping, and I can put these to use down below. But that's just me, others might not have.

    What I wish I had is a quilt- 25" wide and just thick enough to fill any possible gap, say 1" loft would be MORE than enough. And that would not weigh very much at all, but I don't know where I could even get such a thing.

    But, I don't even know if any of that would actually make it significantly warmer(other than adding my sit pad, I'm sure that would be much warmer for the small area covered). I really think it would, but don't know for sure, and the question is how much.

    Any HT90 folks out there getting it done in this way? Using a less than 3" thick insulated pad in the pad pocket, and adding something puffy on top? If so, is that significantly increasing your warmth? What kind of temps can you do?
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 10-21-2019 at 16:23.

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