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  1. #21
    Member mad_matze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    If so, try what I discussed in the previous post some time. Put that bubble pad inside the hammock, or in a pa pocket, with an UQ under the hammock and pad. If I were doing that, I will be dry- and probably a lot warmer than with the UQ alone.
    Thanks for clarifying, I‘ll be sure to try that!

  2. #22
    cmoulder's Avatar
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    The simplest thing in extreme cold is VB, head to toe. It works.

    I got to use them only a couple of times last winter, but the Lightheart Gear rain jacket and pants—which are non-breathable silnylon—stopped condensation entirely. And, surprisingly, I found that in the morning I wasn't nearly as 'clammy' moist as I had feared. I also put plastic bread bags on my feet because they produce a lot of moisture as well.

    Photo below shows moisture collected after a few minutes of moderate activity. This is a true VB.

    VB_01.jpg

    For multiple days in extreme cold where condensation will definitely build up day-by-day, VB clothing is the only way to go. I've personally experienced a -25°F-rated sleeping bag become virtually useless after about 4-5 nights without VB at well-below-zero temps.
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

  3. #23
    OneClick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    The simplest thing in extreme cold is VB, head to toe. It works.
    Ridiculously useful for feet. It took me about 5 hours of high exertion to get into camp back in January. It was 5° starting at 10:30am and hit a high of 10° at best. With a low of -16° approaching, it wasn't a trip for lightweight footwear so I used my Rab vapor barrier socks and Salomon Toundra boots.

    My feet were never so comfortable! After getting into camp I inspected the condensation buildup...almost NONE! Moist feet but no noticeable wetness anywhere. The science of this surprises me every time.



    I'd guess 90% of the time when people get cold feet it's not the sock/boot's fault. It's simply dampness between the toes which always hits first. The moisture isn't going anywhere, held in your socks, so your feet continually get colder and never really warm up.

  4. #24
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    The simplest thing in extreme cold is VB, head to toe. It works.

    I got to use them only a couple of times last winter, but the Lightheart Gear rain jacket and pants—which are non-breathable silnylon—stopped condensation entirely. And, surprisingly, I found that in the morning I wasn't nearly as 'clammy' moist as I had feared. I also put plastic bread bags on my feet because they produce a lot of moisture as well.

    Photo below shows moisture collected after a few minutes of moderate activity. This is a true VB.

    VB_01.jpg

    For multiple days in extreme cold where condensation will definitely build up day-by-day, VB clothing is the only way to go. I've personally experienced a -25°F-rated sleeping bag become virtually useless after about 4-5 nights without VB at well-below-zero temps.
    Quote Originally Posted by OneClick View Post
    Ridiculously useful for feet. It took me about 5 hours of high exertion to get into camp back in January. It was 5° starting at 10:30am and hit a high of 10° at best. With a low of -16° approaching, it wasn't a trip for lightweight footwear so I used my Rab vapor barrier socks and Salomon Toundra boots.

    My feet were never so comfortable! After getting into camp I inspected the condensation buildup...almost NONE! Moist feet but no noticeable wetness anywhere. The science of this surprises me every time.



    I'd guess 90% of the time when people get cold feet it's not the sock/boot's fault. It's simply dampness between the toes which always hits first. The moisture isn't going anywhere, held in your socks, so your feet continually get colder and never really warm up.

    I am tempted to shout "YAY!". I suspect I have - for the many years I have been posting here - been considered "that VB crazy", at least by some. Which is natural, since I have almost always been the odd man out on that subject and a couple of others, more or less taking the opposite opinion on what was common knowledge. But at long last there is a growing number of folks - who are long established and experienced members of the "non VB " majority - who have been putting VB theory to the test and confirmed it's benefits when needed. I no longer feel so alone, and don't feel like such an outcast!

    But, I'm no different than most folks, I prefer the max breathability approach when ever it seems reasonable, as long as I have no trouble getting and staying warm. With that latter being the trickier, staying warm on longer trips as moisture accumulates. I prefer that, but won't hesitate to use VBs when I think they are called for.

    But OTOH, in recent years I have steadily pushed the limits of when I can use VBs, and (mainly for the fun of experimentation, just to see if I can do it) have used them in temps and circumstances(hiking, the hardest to pull off! ) I never thought I would. And it is quite a coincidence to see these 2 posts from OneClick and Cmoulder. Because just yesterday I was doing some back yard testing of the 90* HT + pad. It was not what this southern boy would normally consider cold, in the 60sF. But man what a wind chill! (BTW, could not feel the wind at all through the Neoair All Season pad, though it was ouncing me around in the hammock)

    When I got out there in my short sleeved cotton T shirt, in the shade, the wind just seemed to cut right through me! I decided I was going to need something, but what? Out of several options, just for fun, I decided on my lined SWL VB shirt, over my cotton T shirt. So I wore that as I set up the hammock and pad, and as I was laying in it. Somewhat surprisingly, it turned out to be perfect, and very comfortable! The wind was- as expected- totally blocked. But sometimes if wearing a light waterproof/breathable rain jacket over bare skin or cotton T shirt, though wind proof, it is still somewhat cold as the wind pushes that thin layer against my skin. But I was comfortably warm during the strongest gusts of wind, but not warm enough to sweat during this light exertion. After an hour or 2, when I went in and took the VB shirt off, there was no obvious dampness. Though I am sure there was some in the liner, but I never felt it at all. My cotton T shirt did not seem damp at all. But if I had been working harder, I would have definitely been sweating. Of course, working hard enough and I would have been sweating under anything, but my outer layers would be absorbing it. Which becomes an issue once I slow down.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 10-23-2019 at 08:27.

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