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  1. #11
    Senior Member georgecarr's Avatar
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    FWIW the thought behind the Recon Series is summer season where cold isn't as critical. I've received a number of reports of the Recon quilts going down to 50-55. I have also received and confirmed from personal experience the Operator quilts being warm into the 30's. I would make my choice based on the range of temperature you wish to cover and how warm or cold of a sleeper you are.

    I understand the SUL mentality as I used to backpack sub 5# myself, but have since decided a good nights sleep is worth a few extra ounces if needed.

  2. #12
    Senior Member m00ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikekiM View Post
    Just tied off my CDT TQ at 70" and it's perfect... That question is now answered. Recon 60F 70" TQ.

    Now it comes down to the UQ.

    The 3/4 50F Operator might not be a bad idea. Paired with a 60F Recon TQ it would add more flexibility with about a 2.5oz weight penalty. That considered, the 50F / 60F quilt set is still nearly half the weight of my 40F set and I'd have to think less than half the volume.

    Still have the option to do the 7D fabric to save weight...

    Anyone have feedback on 7D ? I have no experience with this fabric.
    Does anyone know the volume savings when packed using the 7D compared to the standard Argon 67 on the Operator 50 top quilt. I know that both of them pack small but does anyone have a real comparison between the 2?

  3. #13
    Senior Member georgecarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m00ch View Post
    Does anyone know the volume savings when packed using the 7D compared to the standard Argon 67 on the Operator 50 top quilt. I know that both of them pack small but does anyone have a real comparison between the 2?
    No measurable difference that I see.

  4. #14
    Senior Member m00ch's Avatar
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    Thanks for the response George.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #15

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    My only concern/experience with going with SUL down (low loft) is humidity creep issues.
    I prefer synthetic for summer fast and light for that reason.

    I only mention it because I know Micheal (OP) is in the northeast.
    If out west... then I think that they can be more practical. For short weekends... probably doable too.
    Having done a few trips on the AT in Springer to hot springs and the Shennies +50 miles either end with some light down I found that I prefer the synthetic.

    It's a tough call either way... I don't mean to poo-poo George's quilts as his work is excellent.
    Just voicing the legitimate concern I would have if debating the 60* set for a week in humid areas. I didn't crunch the numbers on this particular set... and George's stuff is generally generously filled. But really once you've taken the 'hit' for the shell, baffles, and suspension the extra 1/4" of loft probably isn't much. With such low loft it only takes a little clumping to develop some cold spots... so I'd probably go with the 50* setup as cheap insurance, at least on the UQ at minimum.

    I wouldn't hesitate to use the 7D shell either. Besides the weight, pack size is excellent.
    The M10 SUL hammocks I make pack to nothing- https://1drv.ms/u/s!Apygyt54yYPwg7U4qV_Dn1Jvs1f7dw
    That's a 4'x9'6" double layer in that picture... smaller than a beer can. So since volume is important I'd go that route.

    I've use that shell material for years in my FKT top quilts and it holds up to that abuse just fine.
    Not sure what 7d George is using exactly but the lack of ripstop grid in those very light fabrics is a plus in my opinion. The only issue with M10 (and similar) is that the DWR can make the top quilt feel a bit clammy for the first 30 nights of use. After that it's great feeling and very silky. Folks have made wind gear (jackets, shells, mitts, etc) from M50 (thru-hiker.com) fabric for over a decade with no issues.

  6. #16

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    I just looked-
    With 900 fill and your area... I'd go with the 50* UQ for the few ounce ding.
    If you wanted to push... the 60* top quilt seems reasonable.

    I've been testing a 950 Enlightened Equipment Enigma top quilt for the past several months (I prefer not to go beyond 850)... Even at 20* it's a bit temperamental.
    I was curious if the treated down helped with this but my personal opinion is that while a bit more stable than non-treated it's still an issue for humid areas.
    EE doesn't fill as generously as George in my limited experience with his stuff (have a 20* UQ from LLG)... but in the EE I got a 'salmon' 7d shell so I can physically see the down clusters.

    I'm assuming we're mainly talking AT type terrain and trips...
    You could always be a bit selective with your site selection, but there are enough katabatic zones that even in summer if you got hit with a little humidity creep you could find the 60* UQ struggling.
    The 2.5 ounces or so to bump to 50* is much lighter than carrying any spare clothes or other backup. My preference has always been to eliminate all the clothes you won't wear rather than keep them in to stretch the sleep gear. Sleep insulation is always the biggest bang for your gram.

    If you have a wind shell or similar one size up you can always stuff you top quilt or UQ into that (Mike Clelland style) to make a camp puffy... so skimp on the clothes, bring a good hat, and go a hair conservative on the UQ.

    My opinion only...but that's the system I like and used on my Long Trail FKT attempt and many fast and light trips.
    Skirt, undies, Cap 2 1/4 zip shirt, Cap 4 beanie, insulated hat, Patagonia Houdini and socks. No other clothes with a 45* insulation set for sleep.

  7. #17
    aka 'Extra' MikekiM's Avatar
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    Bill thanks for sharing...

    Agree with the UQ.. that decision is done.

    Still waffling on which TQ.
    * The difficulty of finding any given trail marker is directly proportional to the importance of the consequences of failing to find it.

    * I can lift all the weight I want at the gym. Walking shouldn't be a workout. ~ Just Bill


  8. #18
    cmoulder's Avatar
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    Great advice from top experts in the industry — What a country!

    Either way, it's also nice to have synthetic TQ/UQ in the quiver just in case. I've done a few trips where synthetic has made the difference between merely annoying and a miserable bail-out.
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

  9. #19
    cmc4free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikekiM View Post
    Bill thanks for sharing...

    Agree with the UQ.. that decision is done.

    Still waffling on which TQ.
    Mike,

    I assume you're still waiting to receive the Operator Habanero, given that LLG just reopened not long ago?

    Please share your thoughts when you receive it. I just ordered one, myself.

  10. #20
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    Operator or Recon for a summer quilt set?

    I was looking hard at the 50 and 60 degree top quilts the other day. in south Louisiana, I could make use of the short 60 degree topquilt in many nights from may through September. most nights I go to bed withquilts to the sides only to slip in into them at around 3 am when temps get to the mid to low 70s.
    I can't see any reason to try out the 60 or 50 degree underquilt as my 40 degree underquilt is just 10 oz; however I do see the draw for those who count grams. I tend to err on the side of caution for underquilts and go with a mismatched setup where the UQ is 10 degrees warmer than TQ.
    Last edited by Dlrocm; 06-03-2019 at 08:44.

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