Cost to go UL

[MikekiM]

Yes, Shug.. those side pockets!!!

Noticed your kit uses Nylofume as a pack liner. It looks like a great idea. Decided to ditch the generic trash compactor bag to save 1.3 ounces. Appreciate all the pack list postings. Has helped me save an ounce here and there; they all add up.

Yes.. if it's expected to be nice weather, I just throw the nylofume in the bottom of my bag. Should it get just a but 'ify' the DCF packs will be protective enough. If it's foul weather goig out the door, I am using the nylofume.

The biggest thing that I have realized in getting my base weight to below 10 pounds is that it is a lot cheaper to loose 10 pounds off of my belly than my pack.

Ain't that the truth. Exponentially better and cheaper, but as I age it isn't getting any easier.

[cmoulder]

The biggest thing that I have realized in getting my base weight to below 10 pounds is that it is a lot cheaper to loose 10 pounds off of my belly than my pack.

But if you do BOTH....

[Dvankirk]

But if you do BOTH....

I did and I feel great. I can get my pack under 10 lbs and lost 12 pounds and the miles feel so much better. I look back 20 years when I section hiked the AT and I was carrying 35 lbs. Those were the good old days - knees can't take that any more.

[OneClick]

I loaded my pack up to 35lb last week. For a 1.6 mile hike! But I have to say, a "normal" pack like my Osprey Atmos 65 carried that like it was 15lb.

4 beers, pack raft, collapsible paddles, and PFD really added up. But what was the cost of that? Nothing but pure awesomeness.

[Just Bill]

The biggest thing that I have realized in getting my base weight to below 10 pounds is that it is a lot cheaper to loose 10 pounds off of my belly than my pack.

But if you do BOTH....

UL is a spiral... one change leading to the next.

I both fully agree and disagree with the sentiment. When I was a speed hiking/FKT guy it was common to find those berating a guy with a 15lb beer belly and a 15lb pack.
But I've been both... more than a few times. Chained to the desk and gaining weight... freed from it and flying down the trail.

If exercise feels good... you'll do it.
If a light pack keeps you on the trail longer... eventually the trail will thin you out.
I hate exercising for it's own sake... but love strolling along.
But if you hurt yourself or slug away in misery then neither goal gets accomplished.
It's hard enough to get off your *** once you put on a few pounds... if anyone should look to UL stuff and reap the benefit it's those who are no longer UL themselves.

Things are different now too. I sew because there was not UL gear to buy... at any price. If I was starting now I wouldn't touch a sewing machine.
These days I could likely put together a decent UL kit together from REI at a reasonable cost. And for a $20 membership I can exchange any or all of that gear for a year.

It's nothing new... Horace Kephart spoke of the 'fine art' of outfitting a man for travel in the woods in 1900... and Nessmuk before him with his 25lb kit including canoe, paddle, gun and axe.
Its a necessity in many ways to efficient travel I think many simply conclude over time... at least those who like to ramble a bit. Nothing wrong with a canoe or a lazy short walk-in trip... but when I'd like to go I'd like to really go.

I can lift all the weight I want at the gym. Walking shouldn't be a workout.
To me that's always all it's been about- "fast, light and free" to quote Matt Kirk.
When I take a walk I really, truly appreciate feeling like I am doing just that... floating along and exercising my soul.

[Dvankirk]

I agree with Bill on most of his sentiments. I spent the money and lightened everything up so that I can be ultralight and pound out miles if I want to. Is that fun? It can be for me. I also don't want to limit myself to always be that light, though. Is it fun to go on a hike with a group of friends and not have a chair to sit in while bs'ing around camp? No. For me, I wanted to get as light as I could to survive on the trail (which really is all you are doing when you get that light) and then work my way back up to what will make my trip enjoyable. Because I got lighter, it wasn't as big of deal for me to add things back. In the end, I can get by with 10 lbs, am a little more comfortable with 15, and feel like I am living in luxury at 20. In the end, I do feel better with a lighter load, but need to remind myself that I need to slow down sometimes and am there to have a good time.

[OneClick]

I agree with Bill on most of his sentiments. I spent the money and lightened everything up so that I can be ultralight and pound out miles if I want to. Is that fun? It can be for me. I also don't want to limit myself to always be that light, though. Is it fun to go on a hike with a group of friends and not have a chair to sit in while bs'ing around camp? No. For me, I wanted to get as light as I could to survive on the trail (which really is all you are doing when you get that light) and then work my way back up to what will make my trip enjoyable. Because I got lighter, it wasn't as big of deal for me to add things back. In the end, I can get by with 10 lbs, am a little more comfortable with 15, and feel like I am living in luxury at 20. In the end, I do feel better with a lighter load, but need to remind myself that I need to slow down sometimes and am there to have a good time.

Exactly!

[MikekiM]

......In the end, I can get by with 10 lbs, am a little more comfortable with 15, and feel like I am living in luxury at 20. In the end, I do feel better with a lighter load, but need to remind myself that I need to slow down sometimes and am there to have a good time.

^^^^^^^ Well said.

[Just Bill]

I agree with Bill on most of his sentiments. I spent the money and lightened everything up so that I can be ultralight and pound out miles if I want to. Is that fun? It can be for me. I also don't want to limit myself to always be that light, though. Is it fun to go on a hike with a group of friends and not have a chair to sit in while bs'ing around camp? No. For me, I wanted to get as light as I could to survive on the trail (which really is all you are doing when you get that light) and then work my way back up to what will make my trip enjoyable. Because I got lighter, it wasn't as big of deal for me to add things back. In the end, I can get by with 10 lbs, am a little more comfortable with 15, and feel like I am living in luxury at 20. In the end, I do feel better with a lighter load, but need to remind myself that I need to slow down sometimes and am there to have a good time.

UL remains a spiral... but it does have a bottom. Or as I say about UL design... a cliff.
Once you have found that magical line; you can choose how close you want to get to it.

For me it's just another piece of the overall puzzle in enjoying the outdoors.
I do think that now the overzealous study of this area of skills has passed, we can do a better job expressing it to our fellow outdoorsman.

What lots of folks tend to forget is there are very few SUL folks who are not well rounded outdoorsman as well... I have a background in heavy hauling, scouting, wilderness survival, canoeing, and car camping in luxury. I didn't suddenly abandon those skills or choose to never participate in those trips again. Learning to paddle didn't preclude me from ever backpacking again... anymore than learning UL skills means that I cannot take a camp chair to sit in or face expulsion from the SUL cult forevermore.

Any bushcrafter worth his knife will tell you just because you can start a friction fire means you shouldn't carry a bic in your pocket too.

Backpacking has historically been a means to an end. You backpack to reach a destination, or to perform another action. Mountaineers hauled their gear, fisherman or hunters packed in to reach a prime spot, photographers, bird watchers... you name it. Even simply getting a few miles in past 'the crowds' in the front country to camp in peace has more to do with camping in a particular way than not.

It was historically fairly rare to backpack for the simple sake of walking. For taking that day hike to it's logical conclusion... another dayhike. Walking for the shear pleasure and enjoyment of walking.
There has always been the idea of covering ground... a forced march or crossing of empty land that needed a certain set of gear and skills to do it. But rarely the idea of covering ground just to do it.

I think both sides of the UL debate should understand that difference.
You will rarely convince the average backcountry user that they should abandon all they know to lighten up for the few miles they need to cover to reach their basecamp.
Nor will you convince the aged scout leader that backpacking with all that junk is a character building experience that forms the entirety of the trips purpose.

When you arrive back at the parking lot of the visitor center of your local state park or trail after completing the 2 mile loop...

Many will arrive satisfied and contented.

Some will arrive crushingly disappointed that the walk has ended.

Not everyone enjoys walking or thrills at the idea of a trail that vanishes off into the distance with every possibility of it never ending.
For those that do... UL skills are the most useful branch of all the skills an outdoorsman can learn.

While wilderness survival (bushcraft now), sustainable living and even the scouts all claim to teach self sufficiency...
All these skills are about doing more with less... but in many cases the ability to travel vast distances with bare minimum gear is a far more useful skill.
I think what should be offered is a more friendly approach towards sharing those ideas as complimentary skills.

More often I see that happening... SUL large game hunting is a growing sport. Tenkara fishing in remote places. Bushcrafters who are beginning to appreciate the methods of native scouts who covered vast distances with minimal kits. Survivalists understanding that pulling out a 5lb SUL sleep kit is more efficient and sustainable than using your precious calories to build a debris shelter, reflector wall, and trench fire. Even preppers or bugout folks starting to get that sometimes you need to 'get out of dodge' and that's a challenging task with 60lbs of **** on your back.

Overall I find myself fairly hopeful and optimistic that we are seeing a renaissance of the outdoorsman of Kephart's day. Well rounded, multi-skilled, balanced travelers.
I greatly encourage those of us who are over the initial blinding zeal of UL philosophy to continue to reach out to other outdoorsman.

Outdoor users should get together.

In many ways... hammocks are so enjoyable for me because it brings together so many folks from so many backgrounds so we can all spend a bit more time realizing how much we have in common.
Getting a good night's sleep certainly helps us all relate with each other better doesn't hurt either, lol.

[cmoulder]

I must be at the bottom of the spiral because the UL kit is pretty dialed, which means I don't think much these days about lighter upgrades. When I did the recent Copper Ridge trip with friends Jim & Lisa (whose UL gear is also honed very well) we didn't have a single discussion about gear changes or improvements, so it's safe to say we're "There" as far as the UL quest goes.

And this goes for UL hammocking as well, since sleep/shelter systems are now just parts of the integrated UL kit. I don't think I obsessed over the lightest/simplest hammock setups any more than I did tent and air mat options when I was sleeping on the ground, and less than 2 years into hanging I can say that I'm done experimenting... if there are any further tweaks at all, they will be very minor.