# Thread: How did those cleats work out?

1. Originally Posted by angrysparrow
Griz is right about this one. While the cleats may work fine, they don't come with ANY 'insurance strength'. I can't speak for everyone, but if I'm gonna suspend my body weight off the ground over a potentially hazardous drop, I want there to be no doubts about the suspension's ability to hold it. At a 200# rating, the cleats just don't leave enough room for error for my peace of mind.
I think it was hitchman that wrote that such devices are rated at 25% or less of their breaking strength. So 200# means they have been tested to 800# minimum. Since the forces on the cleat as used in the hammock suspension is exerted on both sides of the cleat and not just one side as used in the marine environments for which they were tested and rated, their use in a hammock suspension is well within their capacity. I would like to see anybody pull a hammock suspension, unaided, and exceed 800#.

*** scary voice from behind the bedroom closet door ****
try this experiment. Get a plastic gallon jug full of milk, thread a cord through the handle, and tie one end at body trunk level to something that won't move. Try to pull the cord so taut that there is no sag in the line due to the jug of milk. No, not a little sag, NO sag. Compare the effort you're expending trying to keep that line taut with the effort needed to just lift the gallon jug.

This is a lesson that will illustrate that the angle of the line between hammock and tree matters when considering how much force is on that line (and by extension, on the cleat). The flatter the angle, the more the force.
If the angle is roughly such that with a person in the hammock the cord rises 1" for every 2" you get closer to the tree, then the force on one cleat is roughly your (full) body weight plus about 10%. This angle is pretty close to the rule of thumb that I've seen used in the discussions.

**** slinking back into the closet ****
Was anybody else thinking about that old TV show Mr. Wizard?

3. ## explaining humour on the Internet

oh TeeDee, one really does hate to have to explain humour on the Internet, but sometimes one really must.

The scary voice from the closet, coupled with the subject line "math monsters, inc.", is a cultural reference to a Pixar movie of nearly the same name, in which scary monsters appear through bedroom closet doors. Those of us with kids at home in 2001 all know about it. Use of the imagery was triggered by ALHikerGal's teasingly offered reference to the forum's "Math monsters", of which I am one.

The objective of the thought experiment was hardly to knock the cleats you love, but to create a "teaching moment" for one who thought the force on the cleats was body weight divided by 2. Read the lesson carefully and you see that the instructions were to try to pull the rope level, never was made the assertion that the rope could be pulled level. Whether the puller has a stroke or the rope breaks first is beside the point; the point is that the exertion is more, much more, than leaning over and picking up the jug.

I am acquainted with the effects of dividing by zero, having become quite accomplished at it in my computer programming days.

No, the voice of warning to which you responded was not mine. I would add that you consistently push that the hanging gang use equipment whose load ratings are known and are well within tolerance of loads which are also understood. For myself I figured you knew what the ratings on the cleats were, and accepted them.

the occasionally pedantic Grizz

4. Originally Posted by Cannibal
Was anybody else thinking about that old TV show Mr. Wizard?
Ha! with all my buried cultural references, I forgot about that one.
Anybody remember Dr. Science from the Duck's Breath Mystery Theatre?

"He's got a Master's degree, in Science!"

Grizz

5. ## Oh my, decisions, decisions!

Had almost decided on the cinch buckles, by just wrapping my stock HH Spectra suspension around the buckle, and buckle to webbing. I was milliseconds from ordering. Mainly hesitating trying to decide between Speer webbing while hoping I could get him to sew a loop in it for me. Versus polyester webbing from strapworks and having to finally give in and try to turn the sewing machine on and DIY. Also, not sure if the polyester would be superior to the polypro, and if it was, would it be heavier? But that webbing decision was about all that was holding me up.

Then I remembered those darn cleats! Though I had been about sold on them a while back, I had forgotten about them. However, if they would safely hold, that would be a REALLY convenient way to go. And it sounds like they have been for TeeDee and FreetheWeasel. (And AlHikerGal, you saw a bent cleat but it didn't break on you, is that right?) Just use the stock spectra and maybe get some longer tree huggers for WA state-Olympic/North Cascades NP this Sept. Possibly later change out the stock spectra for some of this lighter line ( from BPL?) you guys talk about. And maybe save a couple of oz? And after all, no one has yet reported a break, except one person who got a different brand, I think from Lowes. And with me right at 200lbs, it would be about 100 lbs per cleat, right? Or possibly +10% due to an angle less than 30*? And they are rated for 200?

Where is my coin, it might be time to flip it!

6. Originally Posted by BillyBob58
Had almost decided on the cinch buckles, by just wrapping my stock HH Spectra suspension around the buckle, and buckle to webbing. I was milliseconds from ordering. Mainly hesitating trying to decide between Speer webbing while hoping I could get him to sew a loop in it for me. Versus polyester webbing from strapworks and having to finally give in and try to turn the sewing machine on and DIY. Also, not sure if the polyester would be superior to the polypro, and if it was, would it be heavier? But that webbing decision was about all that was holding me up.
Strapworks will happily sew the loops for you. Just email them first, and they do custom sewing for very small fees. The last time I had some sewn, it was like \$1.

7. Originally Posted by BillyBob58
Had almost decided on the cinch buckles, by just wrapping my stock HH Spectra suspension around the buckle, and buckle to webbing. I was milliseconds from ordering. Mainly hesitating trying to decide between Speer webbing while hoping I could get him to sew a loop in it for me. Versus polyester webbing from strapworks and having to finally give in and try to turn the sewing machine on and DIY. Also, not sure if the polyester would be superior to the polypro, and if it was, would it be heavier? But that webbing decision was about all that was holding me up.

Then I remembered those darn cleats! Though I had been about sold on them a while back, I had forgotten about them. However, if they would safely hold, that would be a REALLY convenient way to go. And it sounds like they have been for TeeDee and FreetheWeasel. (And AlHikerGal, you saw a bent cleat but it didn't break on you, is that right?) Just use the stock spectra and maybe get some longer tree huggers for WA state-Olympic/North Cascades NP this Sept. Possibly later change out the stock spectra for some of this lighter line ( from BPL?) you guys talk about. And maybe save a couple of oz? And after all, no one has yet reported a break, except one person who got a different brand, I think from Lowes. And with me right at 200lbs, it would be about 100 lbs per cleat, right? Or possibly +10% due to an angle less than 30*? And they are rated for 200?

Where is my coin, it might be time to flip it!

I hung my hammock last nite on Stone Mountain here in Georgia. Extremely windy and cold. I was warm. I used the buckles for the first time besides at home. I hung my hammock over a spot that I prbably should not have. Let's just say if my suspension failed me it would have been pretty bad. Buckles performed very well. No way would I have tried that with the cleats. I'd be thinking about the bend Alhikergal had in her cleat and probably never slept.

8. Originally Posted by angrysparrow
Strapworks will happily sew the loops for you. Just email them first, and they do custom sewing for very small fees. The last time I had some sewn, it was like \$1.
AhHa! Thanks, I will ask about that! Am I right to think that polyester straps are the preferred way to go, rather than polypro? Or is it just a matter of pros/cons and personal preferences? Ed seems to prefer polypro, for some reason.

Is there a dif in stretch between HH Spectra rope and either polypro or polyester webbing?

Hey, FF: it was cold in Georgia in July? Wow, even on Stone Mountain that's amazing! (opinion of a born and raised GA boy!) Considering that it is July and GA, did you even have any under insulation?

9. OK, I quicly see one reason a manufacturer might choose PPro over P.Ester. About 2x the cost for ester!

10. Originally Posted by BillyBob58
AhHa! Thanks, I will ask about that! Am I right to think that polyester straps are the preferred way to go, rather than polypro? Or is it just a matter of pros/cons and personal preferences? Ed seems to prefer polypro, for some reason.

Is there a dif in stretch between HH Spectra rope and either polypro or polyester webbing?
I'm of the understanding that polyester does stretch less than polypro, but it is slightly heavier. There are a number of threads about this already, so you might want to search and read those. Warbonnetguy said on another thread that it is easier to find polypro at a discount in large quantities and that may be why Speer prefers it.

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