How did those cleats work out?

**bear bag hanger** · 07-24-2007, 23:16

I remember quite a while ago seeing (on White Blaze, long before this forum existed) a math formula for the force exerted on the hammock suport line given the weight being supported and the angle of the lines from the trees. When I used the formula for myself (about 185 lbs at the time) I got about 600 pounds on each line at somewhere around 30 degrees? Given what I'm reading above, maybe my memory isn't too good. But if the rating is 200 pounds and the breaking strength is around 800 pounds, it's not supprising that people are bending them.

I'm using the ring buckle system now and I think I'll stick to them instead of these things. Hopefully, I can find the formula and post here later.

**FanaticFringer** · 07-25-2007, 06:48

Originally Posted by BillyBob58

AhHa! Thanks, I will ask about that! Am I right to think that polyester straps are the preferred way to go, rather than polypro? Or is it just a matter of pros/cons and personal preferences? Ed seems to prefer polypro, for some reason.

Is there a dif in stretch between HH Spectra rope and either polypro or polyester webbing?

Hey, FF: it was cold in Georgia in July? Wow, even on Stone Mountain that's amazing! (opinion of a born and raised GA boy!) Considering that it is July and GA, did you even have any under insulation?

I used my No Sniveller as an underquilt. I did not have my thermometer with me but it had to be in the mid 50's or less. Wind chill was much lower. The main reason it was so cold is because we've had an unusul weather pattern this month in Georgia. Much cooler nites and days than normal.

**peanuts** · 07-25-2007, 07:08

ff, 50's???? your are joking, right????

**FanaticFringer** · 07-25-2007, 07:09

Originally Posted by peanuts

ff, 50's???? your are joking, right????

No joke..........
Just as I was about to take pics of my set-up, my batteries died in my camera. I usually carry backup batteries but did'nt this time......That was a real pisser.......would have had some really cool shots.
Might have even seen the skyline of Atlanta in the background.

**GrizzlyAdams** · 07-25-2007, 07:55

Originally Posted by bear bag hanger

I remember quite a while ago seeing (on White Blaze, long before this forum existed) a math formula for the force exerted on the hammock suport line given the weight being supported and the angle of the lines from the trees. When I used the formula for myself (about 185 lbs at the time) I got about 600 pounds on each line at somewhere around 30 degrees? Given what I'm reading above, maybe my memory isn't too good. But if the rating is 200 pounds and the breaking strength is around 800 pounds, it's not supprising that people are bending them.

I'm using the ring buckle system now and I think I'll stick to them instead of these things. Hopefully, I can find the formula and post here later.

This may be the link you remember, and has the formula. Looks like your memory retained the forces from small angles. 30 degrees is the rule of thumb I've seen discussed in these parts.

Grizz

**FreeTheWeasel** · 07-25-2007, 12:11

I may be living with a false sense of security, but I've not really experienced anything that alarmed me. I weigh about 175 (err, closer to 180, actually but I'm trying . . .) When I get home, I'll take a picture of the cleats and post it here.

I may have to devise some way to stress test these things to get a realistic sense of how likely they are to fail with a person in the hammock. Would suspending a rope to which one adds progressively more weight work? I envision a line between two trees held at either end with a cleat. I would add weight to the center so that the rope deflects until something fails and I loose an eye.

FreeTheWeasel

**TeeDee** · 07-25-2007, 18:45

Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams

oh TeeDee, one really does hate to have to explain humour on the Internet, but sometimes one really must.

The scary voice from the closet, coupled with the subject line "math monsters, inc.", is a cultural reference to a Pixar movie of nearly the same name, in which scary monsters appear through bedroom closet doors. Those of us with kids at home in 2001 all know about it. Use of the imagery was triggered by ALHikerGal's teasingly offered reference to the forum's "Math monsters", of which I am one.

The objective of the thought experiment was hardly to knock the cleats you love, but to create a "teaching moment" for one who thought the force on the cleats was body weight divided by 2. Read the lesson carefully and you see that the instructions were to try to pull the rope level, never was made the assertion that the rope could be pulled level. Whether the puller has a stroke or the rope breaks first is beside the point; the point is that the exertion is more, much more, than leaning over and picking up the jug.

I am acquainted with the effects of dividing by zero, having become quite accomplished at it in my computer programming days.

No, the voice of warning to which you responded was not mine. I would add that you consistently push that the hanging gang use equipment whose load ratings are known and are well within tolerance of loads which are also understood. For myself I figured you knew what the ratings on the cleats were, and accepted them.

the occasionally pedantic Grizz

Ahhh - not having had any kids around the house for a few decades I am no longer conversant with what passes for humor unless it is at least 30 years after it's use by date. I keep telling people "Well, it'll keep you out of the pool hall" and getting blank looks - like "what ARE you talking about?" Sometimes I don't think they even have any idea what a pool hall is. Maybe they think it's a convention hall with a pool??? But then I watch 5 or 10 minutes of TV and find out that the humor I see there is usually some poor guy on a home video getting kicked in the private parts or falling over a fence and I ask myself "Is somebody getting hurt supposed to be funny???" And then I turn the TV off for another week or so.

I am getting too old, but then that really doesn't bother me.

**TeeDee** · 07-25-2007, 18:48

Originally Posted by FanaticFringer

I hung my hammock last nite on Stone Mountain here in Georgia. Extremely windy and cold. I was warm. I used the buckles for the first time besides at home. I hung my hammock over a spot that I prbably should not have. Let's just say if my suspension failed me it would have been pretty bad. Buckles performed very well. No way would I have tried that with the cleats. I'd be thinking about the bend Alhikergal had in her cleat and probably never slept.

Yes, but you don't really know what she meant by a "bend". Not having used them and understood what the "bend" really is.

I'll take the "bend" and the easiest method of hanging yet.

**TeeDee** · 07-25-2007, 18:57

Originally Posted by BillyBob58

OK, I quicly see one reason a manufacturer might choose PPro over P.Ester. About 2x the cost for ester!

The easiest and best way to get really strong and light polyester webbing is to go to either the Harbor Freight web site or one of their physical stores and buy the 15 foot, 1500 lb polyester ratchet straps. By far the lightest polyester strapping I have tried - yes I have the strapworks webbing also - far heavier. The Harbor Freight webbing is about the same weight per foot as Speer's polypro (.20 oz/foot, polypro, and 0.23 oz/foot, polyester) and twice the breaking strength. It is usually on sale - 13' usable webbing for about $3.00 and no shipping if you have a store location near you. Of course, you do have to be content with that bright yellow color.

It's funny, people will be faint of heart to try the cleats because the breaking strength is only 800# and then use Speers polypro webbing with a breaking strength of 700#.

and then they think I don't have any sense of humor.

**TeeDee** · 07-25-2007, 19:02

Originally Posted by bear bag hanger

I remember quite a while ago seeing (on White Blaze, long before this forum existed) a math formula for the force exerted on the hammock suport line given the weight being supported and the angle of the lines from the trees. When I used the formula for myself (about 185 lbs at the time) I got about 600 pounds on each line at somewhere around 30 degrees? Given what I'm reading above, maybe my memory isn't too good. But if the rating is 200 pounds and the breaking strength is around 800 pounds, it's not supprising that people are bending them.

I'm using the ring buckle system now and I think I'll stick to them instead of these things. Hopefully, I can find the formula and post here later.

To get 600 lbs on the rope from an occupant weight of 185, you would have to pull the suspension rope to an angle of 8 deg with you in the hammock - not realistically possible. You will find that your angle is going to be much closer to 30 deg which would put the force on the rope at 185 lbs. That is well within the capability of the cleats.