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  1. #1
    GeneH's Avatar
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    Critique or Correct my Button Knot

    DRAFT

    Heres a button, as opposed to a diamond, knot. (if I have my terms right.) After watching videos of how to tie one so I can bury the tag ends, I cannot seems to get all 4 legs out the same place in the bottom. Theres always a single cord separating the tag or working end from the running part that makes the loop. Im waiting for my order of zing-it so decided to figure out how to do this on inexpensive cord I already have, even if I cant actually bury the tag ends.

    A and B show that single cord. C shows the tag ends are neatly together.

    Am I doing it wrong? Cannot seem to find pictures of the finished inside or bottom of the knot.

    913FC421-551E-453C-8331-C9DF5A39FAA6.jpeg
    I need a new profile picture: I carry less, I'm older, and keep my shirt buttoned up now.

  2. #2
    cmoulder's Avatar
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    Impossible to tell from a still photo, however, if there is a strand separating the tag ends when you pull them through, it is not being done correctly. Those tag ends in the photo are definitely not correct.

    When done right (tightly cinched) and viewed from the top, the knot will have two layers of 4 evenly spaced "petals". The final two top petals are formed by the tag ends and must be pulled through the middle of the other "petals".
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

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  3. #3
    Senior Member jeff-oh's Avatar
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    I use the animated knots video vs. others as it has stills at each stage of knot tying so you can pause and check you work. This one is difficult for me and I have done the exact same thing as you did man times. Only real advise is untie it and try again. One trick to help is to tape the ropes together where you want the knot. This helps keep the middle tight and oriented. Also, I found that, a nail or other stiff wire can be helpful for the last bury to open the hole between the lines to verify the tag end will lay next to the main lines when done.

    Patience and practice, it is worth it. If it helps, it does take me about 3-4 tries before I get it right even now.

  4. #4
    GeneH's Avatar
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    Thanks! I redid this one so many times yesterday. Knots are extremely challenging. . I should never have looked at the videos of high-lining shackle testing. The upside of this current foray is Ill be able to use rope and cord that I previously missed out because of not being able to tie it reliably.
    Last edited by GeneH; 07-13-2019 at 07:54.
    I need a new profile picture: I carry less, I'm older, and keep my shirt buttoned up now.

  5. #5
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    Doesn't help the button knot situation, but for a solid knot to use in soft shackles a big and fail proof option is to make a dog bone, tie an overhand knot in both strands just before the spliced loops and then pass the open end back through the spliced loops.



    And of course tighten it all down good, I left it loose so all could be seen.


    Impossible to capsize, work itself loose or anything of that nature, can still be taken apart on purpose if you need a dog bone instead.

  6. #6
    GeneH's Avatar
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    Hey Squishy, using a dogbone that way looks nice and tidy.
    I need a new profile picture: I carry less, I'm older, and keep my shirt buttoned up now.

  7. #7
    GeneH's Avatar
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    The problem seems to be the way I'm dressing or tightening the knot. I might be inverting or capsizing it while tightening. Really, there probably isn't any practical reason to go to this extent, the diamond knot is more than strong enough, but I do like the aesthetics of buried ends.
    I need a new profile picture: I carry less, I'm older, and keep my shirt buttoned up now.

  8. #8
    Senior Member jeff-oh's Avatar
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    The only concern I have read about diamond knots for use in load bearing applications, (Soft shackles etc.) is they could invert and let the loop slip.

  9. #9
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff-oh View Post
    The only concern I have read about diamond knots for use in load bearing applications, (Soft shackles etc.) is they could invert and let the loop slip.
    Jeff, what is invert? Is something happening inside of diamond knot? Or is diamond knot interacting with something external to diamond knot?
    Ive watched videos of evo loop quick connects.
    Some quick connects look like diamond knot could flip over and disconnect. And others that are more elaborate look more secure
    I have not read of any evo loops failing
    Thanks Jeff

  10. #10
    GeneH's Avatar
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    I think "invert" means the know essentially turns itself inside out, possibly by the cord slipping. But I'm speculating...

    Big mistake - I checked out the International Knot Tyers forum for Dyneema (specifically Lash-it) and (for a different knot, not the button) came up with phrases like, "friction forces within the nub are so great that the knot "locks" before it "folds", so it can remain "flat" and not become as compact and streamlined as we wish. On Dyneema and/or under heavy loading, it will fold before it will lock "

    TMI.
    I need a new profile picture: I carry less, I'm older, and keep my shirt buttoned up now.

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