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  1. #11
    Oquirrh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    South Jordan, UT
    DW Chameleon
    WB Thunderfly
    HGUQ 10 | WBDB 20
    Marlin Sp. Whpies
    Quote Originally Posted by turtlefeet View Post
    thanks for your help; yeah, I have seen this advice over and over here in the forums. I guess I'm just worried because a 20 deg ground bag has never been quite enough for me in winter and spring, so I'm afraid of being cold while I wait to buy the Lynx. And if I have to layer, that's likely going to negate my weight and space savings, so I'm just trying to do my best to get it right the first time.
    I thought the same thing for a really long time, when I was still in the midst of switching to hammocks / still doing ground camping I even invested in a 0F Kelty bag... It was the first time I was ever warm the entire night through, but every time I'd use it I was far too warm, and would always wake up sweating.

    I recently had the pleasure of getting a 20F + 2oz overstuff Warbonnet Diamondback, and man, the cottage top quilts are something to behold. Extremely light weight and compressible, and it really retains heat. I have only had an overheating problem once, and that was when the temps for the night dipped up into the high 40s instead of the low 40s high 30s that I was anticipating. I'll probably get another TQ rated at 40F some time next year, and I'm excited to see how low I can go with the Diamondback, but I am very confident that it will keep me very warm.

    If you're worried about staying as warm as possible, don't forget to have the footbox sewn instead of zippered. I have a zippered footbox because I often sleep too hot and I wanted to have the ability to use the quilt more as a blanket. As KBr00ks said, the temp ratings on the big retailers are veeeeerrry different than the cottage vendors. I've slept in 40F-20F bags in 50F-30F temps respectively, and was extremely cold! But the 20F TQ I've used at the lowest 32F and I was extremely comfortable.


  2. #12
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Northern Cal
    hey man, thanks for chiming in; really appreciate you all helping out

  3. #13
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    SF Bay Area, CA
    I think the answer is how you feel about being in a 0 degree rated bag. If that was not too warm for you, maybe donít fix something that is not broke. The trade off of a bag that thick is of course weight and pack size. The ounces saved between a 0 and 20 degree TQ is not likely worth being cold at night. You are already going to save weight by using a TQ vs a traditional sleeping bag. Spending more $$ on higher loft down will also save weight for its temperature rating.

    The idea of a 0 degree bag in the weather you described seems really hot. But that is me, not you. It sounds like it serves you well. FWIW, I use a 30 degree bag down into the 30s and with layers, am quite comfortable in a tent. Cowboy camping would require a thicker bag.

    Good luck with your decision.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Save that old sleeping bag and when the time comes that you get into DIY gear (and you eventually will) take the down out of that old sleeping bag and make a TQ and/or UQ with it. Down fill is amazingly resilient and essentially will never wear out.

  5. #15
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Tupelo, MS
    Quote Originally Posted by turtlefeet View Post
    Hey folks,
    Getting ready to buy my first real camping hammock, and for 25 years I've been on the ground in an REI 650 fill 0 degree bag, year round camping. I'm getting a WBRR, so it's a bridge and for now I'm gonna be sticking with a 4.4R pad for bottom insulation. Is there any reason (like technological advances in higher fill ratings or something, or just the difference btwn ground and hanging) that I should bump down to a 20F TQ, instead of sticking to a 0F, just for the TQ?

    All I've found to read is that the common higher fill ratings of 800-950 will just make it lighter and pack down smaller. It looks like most of you all seem to think a 0F TQ is complete overkill in the summer, but maybe this is regional differences? I'm usually in the Sierras, or at warmest on the Northern Cal coastal ranges during summer, so the lows are still in the low 50's at night for me, and I sleep kinda cold. I've always found using my 0F mummy open like a quilt and maybe kicking it off my feet and shoulders was all I needed to do in the summer, and that's only if I'm in a tent; I'm usually cowboy or tarp camping in summer and I am definitely not overwarm.

    If I do get the 0 TQ, when I do get around to getting an UQ, what would be the effect of getting a 20F UQ while still using the 0F TQ? Or is that just idiotic?

    I just feel like the all around (both TQ and UQ) 0 degree will indeed make it overkill, because I'm not usually in the deep snow during winter; just heavy and cold rain or sometimes hail. Very occasionally get a dusting of snow. It's more wind chill factor that makes it feel cold, which i think will be mitigated more by a sock or a well pitched tarp. Or, if I'm going to offset the UQ/TQ ratings should I have the UQ be warmer and the TQ the 20F?

    Obviously, I don't know jack. Please help a rookie out!
    I can get away with using a way over kill UQ or pad much easier in warm weather, than I can with a too warm TQ or bag. I would be absolutely miserable trying to use a 0F TQ in 40 or 50F. However, I have always been a somewhat warm sleeper, a much colder sleeper might not have so much trouble.

    In my personal experience(not everyone report this problem) a 0F bag used as a TQ is every bit as warm as a 0F dedicated TQ, EXCEPT for one thing: getting a good draft free seal around the neck and shoulders. I had a lot of trouble with leaks and drafts in that area when I was a beginner, especially with the mummy bags. The hood often got in the way. Many a night in the first couple of winters, I ended up going to the trouble of getting zipped up inside my bag with that nice thick hood and neck collar going to work for me, and I often went from too cold to toasty warm. Though I did get better at using bags as TQs with experience, and of course worst case I could just get inside the bag and zip up, a TQ always seemed to work better for me around the neck/shoulders, especially if it had a snap and draw cord where I could secure it behind my neck and cinch it up. But if you can take care of those drafts, your bag will be just as warm as a similarly rated TQ, plus the ability to get inside it if things are going bad.

    EDIT: when I say your bag should be as warm as a similarly rated TQ, that is with the assumption that the bag has an equal thickness as the same rated TQ you are considering.
    And of course I have no clue if it is or isn't. But you can measure the single(top) layer thickness of your bag. If it is(for down) about 3.5" thick- or about 7 - 7.5" counting both top and bottom layers- then it should be about the same warmth as any 3.5" thick down TQ. I also see from reading further that this is no way near a zero bag FOR YOU! So that means it does NOT have 3.5" single layer down loft(thickness), or you are a very cold sleeper who needs a zero rated quilt/bag for 30 or 40F. Naturally, I have no idea which it is. But, maybe measure your bag?(synthetic bags are thinner- but heavier- for the same rating)
    One last thing to consider: do you have a mummy bag? If so, consider that part of a mummy bags rating is the thick hood and maybe also neck collar as well as the draft free closures. Not only do those two pretty much prevent all neck/head/shoulder drafts, you also have several inches of thick loft around your head. Unless your TQ is a good bit thicker than your mummy bag, it is going to have trouble being as warm as a bag of the same thickness which also has that thick hood.

    A warm hat is not usually going to match the head warmth provided by a mummy bag's thick hood. So, in addition to defeating all drafts, for a TQ of the same thickness(or if using your bag as a TQ) to be as warm as your zipped up bag, you are going to have to do something to insulate your head that equals the missing hood. And whatever you use needs to be as warm as the bag's hood you are giving up. I proved this to myself on the first ever HF group hang back in 09, in the Sipsey Wilderness. I was using a zero rated UQ that many folks have used well below zero and been fine, and in which I had been toasty at 10F. I had a 20F rated TQ(some folks felt that rating was optimistic) plus warm, puffy clothing including a light parka's hood over a fleece hat. I woke up middle of the night just a bit cool, my guess was cool on top or all over, not aware of a cold back or butt. I remembered I had a Marmot sleeping bag hood in my pack, got it out and put it on, went back to bed. That made a huge difference! I went from from a bit too cool to sleep to toasty warm. But here is the kicker: it was only about 27F at worst, and snowing. Wind was not a factor.

    So with a conservatively rated to zero UQ, and a 20F TQ plus a 12 oz synthetic parka with hood and fleece cap, I was not warm enough at 27F until I added that 3" thick hood. After that, I was way toasty rest of the night. That is how big a difference it can make, so keep that in mind. These days I use the JRB hoods, they work great and weigh nothing. But IF you have taken care of drafts, AND have head insulation equal to a mummy bag, you should be equally warm in either your sleeping bag used as a quilt or bag or in a similarly rated TQ. Of course, if the temps are well above the rating of your TQ and UQ, and TQ drafts are well controlled, you can get by with much less head insulation.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 08-23-2019 at 17:42.

  6. #16
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Northern Cal
    Hey all, thanks again for all the input. I split the difference and pulled the trigger on a 10F TQ, no overstuff. very helpful info on the head cover; i'll be sure to not go out in winter without adequate head warmth. turns out i may be in the Michigan UP next spring so i may need to follow BillyBob58's advice to the letter.

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