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  1. #11
    Senior Member rweb82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billcole View Post
    Do you know what the weight limit for the 1.2 MTN is and how do you like the feel of it?
    The comfort rating for the 1.2 is 225lbs. However, the 1.2 has since been replaced by the Mtn. 1.3- which I think has a comfort rating of 250 or 275lbs- I can't remember exactly. I do really like the feel of it. It has a little more stretch than my Hyper D 1.6 hammock, but is just as comfortable for me.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

  2. #12
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    If you want to save weight on the bug net, you can get a HUG. That net just covers your head/shoulders. It assumes your TQ and UQ or pad will keep the underside and from chest on down safe from 'skeeters. A bungee connects to the hammock ridge line (or tarp ridge line if you don't use a hammock ridge line and run the tarp ridge line under that tarp) to keep the net off your face.

    It is one of those "always in my pack" items because it weight practically nothing and it just takes one flying assault to ruin a good rest.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dvankirk View Post
    My Darien is the lightest of my hammocks (a WBBB XLC, 3 Chameleons, a Darien, a WBRR, and a Townsend Luxury bridge) with an attached bug net at 13.8 ounces. I'm sure that there is something lighter, but at what cost in comfort. A fronkey nets comes in lighter since you are taking away the zipper weight. It comes down to what features you like to spend weight on. I love my Darien, but sometimes miss having a zipper on both sides and actually sleep better in a fabric with a little less sag. I get the best sleep in my luxury bridge, but it is 30 ounces with the bug net. In the end, I usually take a Chameleon (with 2 peak lofts and a ridgeline organizer) even when I am trying to be ultra lightweight because it is the best balance of weight and features that I want.
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Apygyt54yYPwhLFv...iaG_Q?e=SoTqTv

    Getting closer... 13.5 ounces for the Hybrid 1.7 version.
    Hoping to crack 13 ounces for the Hybrid 1.3 version.

    That weight includes the spreader bars... the hammock itself is 8 ounces and could be combined in some way with the trekking pole kit. Might be enough to offset the weight of a half bug net...

    I like having the full net I sell, but if I went with a 'coffin lid' style that just covered you that could be done perhaps for a few ounces.

    My Micro was down around 10 ounces, but not that practical for anything but a speed hike.
    Luxury bridge this is not... but it will hopefully fall somewhere between the micro and the Happy Medium to provide the basis of a solid UL bridge kit.

    A gathered end will always be lighter if you can tolerate a light weight fabric. The monolite 1.0 is pretty promising on that front in an 11' x roll width.

    As you say though... "at what cost?" is always a good debate.
    I think if I can get a nearly full size bridge into that range that can handle 200lbs or so it's worthy of discussion.

    Beyond the 'base weight' of the bridge itself...
    Some savings can be found in the UQ and tarp at times as well that bring the total package closer.

    Chasing the dream, lol.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billcole View Post
    I am Interested in reducing my hammock weight. I currently have a WBBB XLC and Chameleon. What is the lightest weight 11' hammock with a bug net you have found? (Not including suspension)

    Regards
    The biggest question is what is the lightest weight fabric that you can tolerate?

    I have built membrane 10 hammocks for folks. Even in a full 11' that would put you at roughly 4.75 ounces for the hammock itself.
    A half bug net would put you up an ounce and half or so from there. 6.25 ounces.

    If you direct attach your whoopies you can cut out the continuous loops... or add the dynaglide loops for a few grams more.

    It will hold 200lbs... but that's less relevant than a comfort rating (or how long it will last).

    Next jump up is the 1 ounce fabrics. The monolite looks promising in my opinion. I slept in one for a week personally.. others have used them longer but it will take a season or two to find out how well it does.

    I've used all the other 1.0 fabrics but prefer Hybrid 1.2 over a hexon or hyperD in one ounce weights.

    Then you can keep going from there...

    I can tolerate a 9'9". Though 10'6" is nicer... 11' nicer still, lol.

    As others mentioned- one of the better trades you can make is regarding the zippers.
    Zipped on one side helps... knock that down to 2/3rds of a side helps more.

    11' of even #3 coil with a few pulls and finish puts you about 1.5 ounces.

    That's two yards of .67 netting and a hunk of shock cord which is about what you need to make a half net with no zipper.

    Something to consider with a half net hammock as well...
    I've heard some folks make the comment that the net is 'in your way' when you don't need it. At least if you just sew it on the sides of the hammock and use no zippers. The point being that having all that zipper lets you neatly 'remove' the bug net and stuff it up out of the way.

    The simple solution to that problem is just to turn around in the hammock.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Apygyt54yYPwhLFv...iaG_Q?e=SoTqTv

    Getting closer... 13.5 ounces for the Hybrid 1.7 version.
    Hoping to crack 13 ounces for the Hybrid 1.3 version.

    That weight includes the spreader bars... the hammock itself is 8 ounces and could be combined in some way with the trekking pole kit. Might be enough to offset the weight of a half bug net...

    I like having the full net I sell, but if I went with a 'coffin lid' style that just covered you that could be done perhaps for a few ounces.

    My Micro was down around 10 ounces, but not that practical for anything but a speed hike.
    Luxury bridge this is not... but it will hopefully fall somewhere between the micro and the Happy Medium to provide the basis of a solid UL bridge kit.

    A gathered end will always be lighter if you can tolerate a light weight fabric. The monolite 1.0 is pretty promising on that front in an 11' x roll width.

    As you say though... "at what cost?" is always a good debate.
    I think if I can get a nearly full size bridge into that range that can handle 200lbs or so it's worthy of discussion.

    Beyond the 'base weight' of the bridge itself...
    Some savings can be found in the UQ and tarp at times as well that bring the total package closer.

    Chasing the dream, lol.
    Let me know when a production model is available and I will get an order in! I do love my luxury bridge. Had it out last weekend for a low mileage hike.

    I was thinking of how to go more minimal on the tarp without leaving myself open to too much weather. Have you tried any kind of sock / uqp with your bridges? Thinking about a simpler solution than having an uqp rigged to work with a bridge and the net separately.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dvankirk View Post
    Let me know when a production model is available and I will get an order in! I do love my luxury bridge. Had it out last weekend for a low mileage hike.

    I was thinking of how to go more minimal on the tarp without leaving myself open to too much weather. Have you tried any kind of sock / uqp with your bridges? Thinking about a simpler solution than having an uqp rigged to work with a bridge and the net separately.
    Once I'm happy with one... I test it for 30 days or so.
    Then 10 testers for 90 days each (900 nights)

    Versions of the new technique I'm using in different models have been testing since the beginning of the year... so to an extent it's more about finding the right version of this bridge. Once I do... I make a batch of 10 or more and do the testing. I could keep you in mind for that round. I want to see how the hybrid 1.3 does for me (235 lbs now ) The Hybrid 1.2 started farting out around 175 ish for production or around 190 ish for real life. I think the Hybrid 1.3 will let me cross that 200lb line I'd like to hit for this bridge.

    Anyway- to answer your other question:

    Nothing from me beyond my standard minimalist answers, lol.
    Wear a headnet and use a stakeless tarp. Drop the bridge height down low and the splash goes down.

    A few people have asked me about doing a sock/UQP type thingy but I don't personally use anything like that and I'm not a fan... which leaves me slightly ill equipped to design one I'd feel good about. And I'd have to add a zipper or door to it.

    Main thing though is simple production issues. I thought I had a (another) vendor to sew the Big Guy and Luxury Bridges so that I could focus more on Mediums, prototypes, accessories. But that fell apart earlier this year. So I am the only seamster once more and fairly limited to simply producing the bridges as a result.

    I try to do a little prototyping (just to stay sane) but that's been hit pretty hard with some family health issues.

    That said- I don't think many are looking at my larger bridges for this purpose. Most of my Big Guy customers are rocking a 13' tarp with double pole mods and that level of coverage solves the problem. To be blunt... probably more efficiently than a sock would. That's always been my issue with socks in general (besides minimalism). I would rather put my extra ounces budget into a larger tarp or even spring for cuben (DCF).

    Brandon sells his spindrift for $135... I'd have to imagine I'd come in higher than that.
    His 20d version is 12.7 ounces. I'd probably be able to beat that but even if I said 10 ounces...that's the weight of a DCF winter palace by itself. So I'd rather see someone put both the money and the weight into a tarp upgrade. A sock has limited use... a good tarp is useful nearly all the time.

    So it seems counterproductive to me to be honest. With my more compact pitch you can easily close the doors with a 12' tarp. So wind problem mostly resolved. Extra tarp size resolves most of the splash issues with the bonus that you can also get a much more generous porch mode in fairer weather.

    If I had the production capability I'd be looking at my stakeless tarp designs first... That does give you that final option to close things up nearly 360 degrees. While not quite as complete as a true sock in terms of the bivy sack type function... I like it better as the ventilation from the triangles is better. It address the concerns about poles bumping the tarp as well.

    One of the other sorta secret tricks with skipping the bugnet is the stakeless tarp. No it's not a true bugnet, nor as sealed as a sock... but it cuts down the bulk of the bugs to the point that a ball cap and headnet will suffice in fair weather. In truly hot weather you need a full net since you can't cheat by keeping the rest of yourself undercover... but if it's cool enough to remain in the top quilt there are not a ton of bugs in there.

    This newer bridge is not quite as compact as the micro but getting there at around a 9'9" RL... meaning you fit nicely under a 10' tarp. That's an 8.5 ounce Dyneema palace. Or not far from there with one of my stakeless in nylon... So to an extent to solve some of the backpack specific issues I need to get this backpack specific bridge going to build around. For 90% of the Lux/Big Guy customers 90% of the issues are addressed with off the shelf gear. For those looking for a better backpack system I still feel strongly that giving you 'more tarp' on a compact bridge is a better choice.


    All that said... I do listen!
    I realize I'm a bit of an odd hanger in that I'm not really much of one. I'm a backpacker with a bad back who made gear and then watched a Grizz video. Helps me develop some different stuff.. but I do try to give folks what they want when I can. For the moment what they want is bigger bridges so that's what I do...
    The piece of gear I drool about though is that perfect backpacking bridge.

  7. #17
    New Member
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    Just Bill

    Just wanted to say thank you. I'm still on the new side in this hammocking world, but even if I had no interest in hammocking at all, I would still just love reading how passionate you are about your craft. I hope you never go away, and never get too busy to come on here and share your knowledge and thoughts with us customers. Personally, I have almost no interest in a bridge hammock (I love almost every gathered end I've ever tried), but there's still a decent part of me that wants to buy a hammock from you just to help keep you going strong in your field.
    Thanks

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by poor_jalopy View Post
    Just Bill

    Just wanted to say thank you. I'm still on the new side in this hammocking world, but even if I had no interest in hammocking at all, I would still just love reading how passionate you are about your craft. I hope you never go away, and never get too busy to come on here and share your knowledge and thoughts with us customers. Personally, I have almost no interest in a bridge hammock (I love almost every gathered end I've ever tried), but there's still a decent part of me that wants to buy a hammock from you just to help keep you going strong in your field.
    Thanks
    Thanks fella... there's a good balance of passion and practicality here I enjoy. And hammocks seem to attract a bit of everyone.
    I'll be the first to tell you- if you don't have a problem then a piece of gear can't solve it. So enjoy your gathered ends. I care more about helping folks find what they need to get out than selling them stuff. So if you've already got all you need... then we can just pack up and hit the trail.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Anyway- to answer your other question:

    Nothing from me beyond my standard minimalist answers, lol.
    Wear a headnet and use a stakeless tarp. Drop the bridge height down low and the splash goes down.

    A few people have asked me about doing a sock/UQP type thingy but I don't personally use anything like that and I'm not a fan... which leaves me slightly ill equipped to design one I'd feel good about. And I'd have to add a zipper or door to it.

    Main thing though is simple production issues. I thought I had a (another) vendor to sew the Big Guy and Luxury Bridges so that I could focus more on Mediums, prototypes, accessories. But that fell apart earlier this year. So I am the only seamster once more and fairly limited to simply producing the bridges as a result.

    I try to do a little prototyping (just to stay sane) but that's been hit pretty hard with some family health issues.

    That said- I don't think many are looking at my larger bridges for this purpose. Most of my Big Guy customers are rocking a 13' tarp with double pole mods and that level of coverage solves the problem. To be blunt... probably more efficiently than a sock would. That's always been my issue with socks in general (besides minimalism). I would rather put my extra ounces budget into a larger tarp or even spring for cuben (DCF).

    Brandon sells his spindrift for $135... I'd have to imagine I'd come in higher than that.
    His 20d version is 12.7 ounces. I'd probably be able to beat that but even if I said 10 ounces...that's the weight of a DCF winter palace by itself. So I'd rather see someone put both the money and the weight into a tarp upgrade. A sock has limited use... a good tarp is useful nearly all the time.

    So it seems counterproductive to me to be honest. With my more compact pitch you can easily close the doors with a 12' tarp. So wind problem mostly resolved. Extra tarp size resolves most of the splash issues with the bonus that you can also get a much more generous porch mode in fairer weather.

    If I had the production capability I'd be looking at my stakeless tarp designs first... That does give you that final option to close things up nearly 360 degrees. While not quite as complete as a true sock in terms of the bivy sack type function... I like it better as the ventilation from the triangles is better. It address the concerns about poles bumping the tarp as well.

    One of the other sorta secret tricks with skipping the bugnet is the stakeless tarp. No it's not a true bugnet, nor as sealed as a sock... but it cuts down the bulk of the bugs to the point that a ball cap and headnet will suffice in fair weather. In truly hot weather you need a full net since you can't cheat by keeping the rest of yourself undercover... but if it's cool enough to remain in the top quilt there are not a ton of bugs in there.
    I think that the DCF palace tarp is probably the easiest and lightest option. Maybe just not the cheapest option. I'm one of those hangers that always has a bug net no matter the time of year. I know how much weight it adds and cuts down on my views and everything else, but I had a rather large spider climb down my ridgeline once and fell on my face. I pretty much stay in my safe place now.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dvankirk View Post
    I think that the DCF palace tarp is probably the easiest and lightest option. Maybe just not the cheapest option. I'm one of those hangers that always has a bug net no matter the time of year. I know how much weight it adds and cuts down on my views and everything else, but I had a rather large spider climb down my ridgeline once and fell on my face. I pretty much stay in my safe place now.
    Yar... seems several of you in that neck of the woods have more spider issues than I'm used to. That's in part why I changed the nets along the way to add a shock cord closure to each top corner so you could seal it up better for that. That's a fun part for me too; learning some of the regional issues and challenges. Been through the AT and a trip or two down there... but passing through is different than spending time over several seasons.

    I'll definitely think about it some still. One issue with bug net/UQP combo is having moisture get trapped when it falls through the net itself. (Assuming you've got that minimal tarp that is).

    In theory- the DWR on the Membrane 10 is probably enough for splash protection. If you swapped out that for .67 netting... you're not too far off on weight (but near double the cost on material.) You are cutting out the shock cord on the bottom perimeter and a little fabric... that could offset some of the zipper weight.

    I can see how it would look and work. Even thought about it a bit as a 'net tent inner' bonus feature if you went to ground with it. (over a polycro ground sheet).

    But that still brings me back to my original thoughts...
    Since Dutch has recently seen the light on edgebinding lets give him a shot...

    12' Xenon Hex with pullouts- 365g (12.8 ounces) for $150.
    https://dutchwaregear.com/product/ul...panel-pullouts

    Lets say I could do a Net/UQP combo for 11 ounces and $150.

    So 23.8 ounces and $300 or so.

    Compare that to Dutch's 12' winter tarp with pullouts- 310g (10.88 ounces) for $330
    https://dutchwaregear.com/product/wi...panel-pullouts

    Add my standard net for the $50 with bridge and roughly 9 ounces.

    $380 and 19.88 ounces. Or an extra $80 to save 4 ounces on paper... but in real life-

    You've got a much bigger tarp. I know folks call them winter tarps... but seems more are realizing that you might as well call them year round tarps with the storms we've been getting... so you're getting a big bump in coverage out of it.

    You've got a net you can easily swap out.... My net isn't that great, but the reason I like the bottom entry style is that when you don't need it... it's really gone. Even if you zip something off- you still carry half the zipper.
    With that type of net you can go from zero weight (or an ounce if you normally don't carry a headnet) up to the full net.

    So your overall kit addresses the splash and wind via the tarp... which is UL year round.
    Your bug solution is efficient and flexible as needed through the year and your core piece (the bridge) hasn't been altered.

    To your other point though;if you are a year round net user... eventually I should develop an integrated net version....
    which eliminates the need for the net/sock combo anyway.

    Not to force you into my way of thinking on it- but more to spell it out plain.
    Maybe there is some fault in my reasoning on this issue, but the more I discuss it with folks I feel that the better solution is to go with the bigger tarp off the bat. If you can afford the DCF upgrade (or care to) then go for it.

    You can skip the DCF and still get the benefit-
    Even if you go from Dutch's xenon hex to winter- 475g (16.67 ounces) and $210.
    https://dutchwaregear.com/product/ul...panel-pullouts

    That puts you up $60 and 4 ounces.
    Still cheaper than a net/UQP... and probably a wash on weight. But again now you have the extra tarp coverage.

    Again- this is as much for my benefit as yours to spell it out/discuss it.
    I personally think hammocks tend to get 'bloated' easily. In large part because there are so many diverse users involved.
    And once you make one comfort concession you might as well make a few more. So folks trick stuff out for car camping or casual use and then get used to it. Or they add a piece of gear to compensate for a problem with a piece of gear they already own. Least that's the way I tend to see it.

    I like to strip it all away, then add back what makes sense.
    I'm kind of a cheap *** too. I like to run 'value calculations' like I did above.
    As a vendor- makes sense for me to just say... "you wanna buy it I'll make it."
    But if I can't really wrap my head around why it's a good value for you... I find I cannot really get behind the design of it either. I'd rather sell you someone else's stuff than sell you something just to sell it. If I can't see the value I'm adding then I don't see why I should bother to sell it at this point.

    Even if I wasn't limited in what I could offer... I still wouldn't want to offer things that didn't have real value. There's enough folks out there working hard on the number of items they offer in their inventory and if someone wants a do-dad they can find it. Much like a good backpack... I'd rather have a a few quality pieces of high value/versatility than dozens of things 'just in case' or for 'that one bad night that one time that I don't want to repeat'. Perfect 80% of the time is good enough for me. Without one or two unusual nights we'd have nothing to talk about around the fire, lol.

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