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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floridahanger View Post
    If that's the whole piece of Amsteel, I too would think it just came apart. If this is the case, seems like a locked Brummel wasn't used. Also, the ends were not tapered. The tapering helps in the transition from filled line to single line to keep the strength at its highest.

    Dutch holds a pretty good CL making class at some of the hangs that he attends as a Vendor. He held a great one at HangCon 2018. I love my DIY CLs and have the utmost confidence in them. Remake the CL's if you know how or watch a few vids on YT. Not that hard and a great feeling you use your own work.

    Ok, stop everything. What is this hangcon you speak of.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Floridahanger's Avatar
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    So, not to hijack your thread, but since you asked...

    This group hang called HangCon (Hammock Hanging Convention) started as the Annual Florida Hang on MLK weekend in Florida(great weather) in Ocala National Forest.

    Check out the trip report for this past HangCon 2019 here.
    Also the trip report for HangCon 2018 here

    It's what we believe to be the World's Largest group hammock hang and the best, in our opinion. (And ya can't talk us out of it). We've had 350+ hangers/campers/tenters and room to grow.

    Come on down for HangCon 2020 MLK weekend January 17-20, 2020.
    Enjoy and have fun with your family, before they have fun without you

    My fantastic Photographer wife: http://www.capturedhearts-photography.com

  3. #23
    Senior Member jeff-oh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajoutdoors View Post
    One would think the people that do this for a living would be better at it than me.
    This is not the case. To make a locked Brummel CL takes more time and attention to detail than a simple continuous loop sold by this vendor. Interesting that they are having equipment failure issues. Contact them and I bet you will be happy with their post issue customer service. Could very well be they changed their process and created a field issue...

  4. #24
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    If I was a vendor, I'd use a few lock stitches on both sides. That way there is no chance of the continuous loop coming apart.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  5. #25
    Senior Member rweb82's Avatar
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    Judging by the picture, the Amsteel did not have a proper 2" taper, and it doesn't look like it would have had a full 5" bury either. If you do those two things, a straight bury CL should actually be stronger than a locked Brummel style.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff-oh View Post
    This is not the case. To make a locked Brummel CL takes more time and attention to detail than a simple continuous loop sold by this vendor. Interesting that they are having equipment failure issues. Contact them and I bet you will be happy with their post issue customer service. Could very well be they changed their process and created a field issue...
    There is some debate as to whether or not the brummel actual helps or hurts. The arguments is that while it does theoretically prevent slip-outs, 1) the buried portion should be well inside the larks-headed end on the hammock so it aint commin out any time soon, and 2) the brummel actually weakens the line because of the very sharp turn the cord makes where it crosses.

    I can see it both ways, but without lab tests, can't know for sure.

  7. #27
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    I'm going to jump in here.

    First, the vast majority of folks make CLs with "pass-throughs" that only resemble the locked Brummel as is done on a properly spliced end loop. Those CL pass-throughs do absolutely nothing to prevent the CL from coming apart. You can prove this by doing the pass-throughs and then, without doing the buries, pull on the "joint." It comes apart! ALL of the strength and hold power in a CL splice is in the bury. In fact, those pass-throughs probably reduce the strength a tiny bit. Note that only one adequately long bury is needed to achieve maximum strength. The other bury can be quite short. It is important, however, that both buries be properly tapered.

    SilvrSurfr mentions using lock stitches. Actually, one through the middle, where the buries adjacently start, is all that is needed. Yup, you can get by without a stitch and most of us do, most of the time. If no stitch is used, the CLs should be examined from time to time to see if any separation has occurred.

    There is a way to do a true locked Brummel on a CL as shown on the Animated Knots site. My concern with that technique is that the buries double back, rather than continuing in the same direction, and therefore ALL of the load is carried by the locked Brummel and almost certainly results in a significantly weaker CL. The only good news is that there's a pretty big margin in the strength of the Amsteel, assuming at least 7/64" (2.8mm) and typical occupant weight.

    One final observation. I don't believe you can tell from the photo if pass-throughs had been done or not. Not that it would matter...
    Last edited by TominMN; 09-09-2019 at 20:43.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajoutdoors View Post
    One would think the people that do this for a living would be better at it than me.
    Maybe they are(?), but with just a bit of practice you'll be able to pass them up!

  9. #29
    Senior Member jeff-oh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leiavoia View Post
    There is some debate as to whether or not the brummel actual helps or hurts. The arguments is that while it does theoretically prevent slip-outs, 1) the buried portion should be well inside the larks-headed end on the hammock so it aint commin out any time soon, and 2) the brummel actually weakens the line because of the very sharp turn the cord makes where it crosses.

    I can see it both ways, but without lab tests, can't know for sure.
    FWIW: The this is not the case statement was in reference to the OP's assertion:
    One would think the people that do this for a living would be better at it than me.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TominMN View Post
    Maybe they are(?), but with just a bit of practice you'll be able to pass them up!
    Sounds fun, I may have to give it a shot

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