Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 28
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    59

    HH SS: no CBS, but definitely Wet Butt Syndrome!

    I've been patiently waiting for cold weather, since the arrival of my HH SS, last month. Finally, last night, it was supposed to get down to freezing for several hours, so I hung everything in my backyard, and got to it.

    Since I have no cold weather experience, and also haven't hung in my hammock much, this year, I wanted to go overboard on warmth and comfort (full list below), then peel off layers over subsequent nights to see how little I can use at various temps. I suspect I had too much warmth, but I wasn't so hot that I was noticeably sweating (yes, I know about imperceptible perspiration, and there was obviously a lot going on!).

    When I gave up at midnight, I had an actual puddle under my butt. Although I would never take cotton into the woods, I hadn't bothered swapping out my city-wear cotton briefs, and they were soaked through. While I was warm, I hadn't even noticed, but when I went inside, a change of clothes was required before I crawled into bed.

    Equipment Specs:
    HH Expedition
    SuperShelter undercover
    45-year-old down sleeping bag (under OCF pad) open, in single layer
    OCF pad
    mylar blanket (between OCF pad and hammock)
    Hammock Gear Econ Burrow 20 F top quilt

    Clothing Specs:
    wool/nylon puffy socks
    cotton briefs (never again!)
    lightweight capilene long johns
    polyester T-shirt
    midweight fleece jacket
    thin face mask
    beanie

    Would a wicking layer (fleece blanket? chamois?) under my backside---inside the hammock---work? Would it pull the condensation to the cool air outside my top quilt and evaporate?

    I would believe that I didn't need the extra insulation in my undercover, but I would like to find a combo that works all night...I don't want to have to get out and add something when the temp dips.

    I've tried to read a bunch of old threads, and it seems that maybe some people are just soggier sleepers than others. Do I have to admit my physiological shortcomings and find another solution? I really wanted to love this system.

  2. #2
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Cackalacky Del Norte
    Posts
    30
    You got way too much on. I slept in the same conditions last night with a 20 degree underquilt a 20 degree top quilt and some mid weight fleece.bottoms and a nano puff jacket. The jacket is a good way of covering your head and arms and regulating Heat. Also, getting up to pee is a lot more pleasant when you stayed warm

  3. #3
    Senior Member Tyroler Holzhacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Mid Atlantic USA
    Hammock
    DH DL Sparrow/SL Darien
    Tarp
    MacCat/WBSuperfly
    Insulation
    LL/JRB/DIY down
    Suspension
    MSH/Whoopies/strps
    Posts
    1,002
    Images
    5
    I had a problem using a similar setup with using the vapor barrier under my sleeping bag when I first got into hanging. My "vapor barrier" was an old rei sleep pad under the sleeping bag in a SL Kammok Roo at the time. What a difference a top and underquilt make to comfortable sleeping in a GE hammock. With the vapor barrier, I experienced significant condensation/soggy backside when awakening. This one negative camping experience prompted me to buy an underquilt to solve the vapor barrier problem as soon as my budget allowed, and I've been a happy camper since..

  4. #4
    TrailSlug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Hammock
    Warbonnet RR / BlackbirdXLC
    Tarp
    SimplyLightDesigns
    Insulation
    Lynx / LocoLibre
    Suspension
    webbing/buckles
    Posts
    7,497
    Images
    1
    Any non breathable insulation layers spells trouble when camping in cold damp weather. Do yourself a favor and get a down top and bottom quilt and you'll eliminate all but the worst of hanging conditions. Eliminate the OCF pad and Mylar blanket and replace with a high quality down under quilt and you can enjoy your hangs.

  5. #5
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Jersey Shore, NJ
    Hammock
    Dutch PolyD
    Tarp
    HG Winter Palace
    Insulation
    HG 0, 20, 40
    Suspension
    Dutch Whoopie Hook
    Posts
    14,075
    Images
    3
    There are very few people who do not experience condensation using the SuperShelter (BillyBob58, one of the top proponents of the Supershelter, will be along shortly).
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  6. #6
    Senior Member LuvmyBonnet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    on an island
    Hammock
    WBBB XLC/R.R 1.1 dbl
    Tarp
    WB Superfly UGQ WD
    Insulation
    HG/LocoL/AHE/UGQ
    Suspension
    Beetle Buckles
    Posts
    1,702
    Images
    20
    Hi Framjam! You should make it out to a group hang. You'll have a wealth of knowledge at your disposal. EGL (Eastern Great Lakes) is a great group of lads and lassies! We're have a Hang at Valens Conservation Area the weekend of Nov 22-24. Some of are going to The Ontario Winter Camping Symposium on Saturday. It's sold out by I think someone has some extras. So come on out, fill your belly with lots of good food and learn the arts of hammock.
    Hanging in the woods, paddlin and catching trout- My kind of living...

  7. #7
    TrailSlug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Hammock
    Warbonnet RR / BlackbirdXLC
    Tarp
    SimplyLightDesigns
    Insulation
    Lynx / LocoLibre
    Suspension
    webbing/buckles
    Posts
    7,497
    Images
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    There are very few people who do not experience condensation using the SuperShelter (BillyBob58, one of the top proponents of the Supershelter, will be along shortly).
    Yep, if the insulation can't breath then there's no place for the ever present condensation to go.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by TrailSlug View Post
    Yep, if the insulation can't breath then there's no place for the ever present condensation to go.
    Yes, I understand the thermodynamics of it, but it appears that there are some people that have it licked, and I was hoping to hear from them.

    Taking out the mylar blanket (and OCF) and replacing it with something down, but leaving the waterproof undercover beneath it as a UQP is not a good idea, because the temp differential will occur somewhere in the middle of the down.

    There do seem to be people that like this system, and I'm hoping to hear from BillyBob and his gang with suggestions.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by LuvmyBonnet View Post
    Hi Framjam! You should make it out to a group hang. You'll have a wealth of knowledge at your disposal. EGL (Eastern Great Lakes) is a great group of lads and lassies! We're have a Hang at Valens Conservation Area the weekend of Nov 22-24. Some of are going to The Ontario Winter Camping Symposium on Saturday. It's sold out by I think someone has some extras. So come on out, fill your belly with lots of good food and learn the arts of hammock.
    Yeah, I saw that event. Not sure whether I can make it, but I might try. I'm not too stumped on the arts of hammock; just whether or not the SS (or even the HH Expedetiion, at this point) are my friends.

  10. #10
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
    Posts
    10,231
    Images
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    There are very few people who do not experience condensation using the SuperShelter (BillyBob58, one of the top proponents of the Supershelter, will be along shortly).
    Yep, here I am. There are a few of us that have used the HHSS with great success all things considered. And a few of us(OneClick, cmc4free (?) and/or Cmoulder, TxAggie and a few others), that use VBs with nothing but benefits, but we are few. I have not been the least bit damp since first using the HHSS in 2006, except one time when I did not follow the directions. Not one drop of perceptible moisture on me or in my insulation!

    I think you must have been over heating and sweating. Maybe not surprising if you had a sleeping bag under the OCF pad at a mere 0C/32F. kwpapke used such a combo at minus 27F and was plenty warm. And dry.

    So looks like we either have proof of synthetic insulation being warm when wet or, the space blanket/VB did it's job and kept the sweat out of the insulation, since you stayed warm. I suppose it's possible it was condensation and not sweat from overheating, but seems very unlikely with all of that insulation under you. Because, as I'm sure you already know, condensation occurs on cold surfaces that ar at or below the dew point. I doubt seriously the space blanket was cold with both the OCF pad AND a down sleeping bag under you. And evidence of that might be that, despite being wet, you were still warm. So the space blanket must have been warm also, I guess. So condensation is unlikely, sweat from over heating more likely. But here is the good news: you might have ended up with wet cotton under wear(but still warm! classic VB effect), but if you did not have that space blanket in there and if you were still hot enough to sweat, you might not have noticed it on night one. Because your down bag would have soaked up any sweat like a sponge. In addition, your body vapor might have ended up condensing back to liquid inside your insulation. Again, you might not notice at first. But if packing up every morning, and no sun shine for drying, you may well notice later when you get cold. I'm convinced that is why so many people like to routinely use quilts 10-20 degrees warmer than the lowest likely temp they might encounter. Or one reason people pay for extra down.

    So, since you already have it and might as well try to get it working, I suggest trying it again without the sleeping bag. Also pay attention to your top insulation, that might be where you are over heating, then when you sweat it runs down hill to the low point under your butt. I have been plenty warm in mine at about 14F by just adding a down vest and/or fleece jacket, with no tarp in windy conditions. With nothing added, I have more than once been OK at about freezing.

    But I should give you two cautions.
    1: depending on the weight of your bag, and how you adjusted your underover suspension, adding a bag below the OCF pad might cause more sag in the UC than the bag adds in loft. If that happens, you will have a gap under the OCF pad. Then the pad will get cold, and with no under cover blocking that cold air it can go right through that OCF pad which is so open that easy to breath through.Then your space blanket willget cold, then you will have significant condensation. Though, I'd think you would be cold if that happened, still, watch out for it. If the bag is added, the Under cover must be adjusted tight enough to lift the bag and pad up against your back with no gaps.
    2: There is a new style HH insulation system that- while similar to the original HHSS, is still quite different. If you have the newer one, I really don't have any advice about that one as I have never used it. But I think it uses the space blanket under the OCF pad, so I would be paranoid about condensation.

    Though this worked out bad, it is in a funny way a back handed endorsement to the HH system. A pool of water under your butt, and still warm at freezing! WOW! There has been many a cold butt reported around here over the years at 10 or 20F above a down quilts rating, especially with new users. With no apparent dampness to blame with these breathable systems. In most systems, with that much moisture, you should have been freezing your butt off.

    Good luck on working it out, and keep us posted! TIP: want to be really dry and never worry again about moisture in your quilts or OCF pads or on top of your CCFor inflatable pads again? Research Stephenson's Warmlight VB clothing!
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 11-05-2019 at 10:15.

  • + New Posts
  • Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

    Similar Threads

    1. Cold Butt Syndrome
      By millergear in forum Bottom Insulation
      Replies: 25
      Last Post: 02-22-2019, 22:09
    2. ITCHY BUTT SYNDROME
      By Hoolio in forum Suspension Systems, Ridgelines, & Bug Nets
      Replies: 21
      Last Post: 06-07-2017, 17:30
    3. Cold Butt Syndrome
      By lowcountry in forum Bottom Insulation
      Replies: 7
      Last Post: 01-12-2016, 18:40
    4. Observations on Cold Butt Syndrome
      By SilvrSurfr in forum Bottom Insulation
      Replies: 27
      Last Post: 01-24-2013, 00:05
    5. Cold Butt Syndrome!
      By Gra_factor in forum Under Quilts
      Replies: 46
      Last Post: 02-17-2012, 07:00

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •