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  1. #11
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneClick View Post
    I thought about that, but the clothing was minimal and the quilts were only rated for 5 above actual temp (20 quilt in 25 weather). And two weeks ago it hit 19 on two separate nights with the 20 quilts. The only other time I can remember a wet TQ was years ago, sleeping tarpless, so the answer is obvious in that scenario (dew).
    Maybe the dew did you in.
    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Secure in Sector Seven

  2. #12
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneClick View Post
    I posted a little about this in the vapor barrier thread, but gotta mention it here and figure things out. I'm not sure why, but only since last winter has my TQ been getting wet on the top/outside when below freezing.

    This past weekend was a good example.

    -38 high, 25 low. I'd guess 5 mph wind.
    -Superfly tarp hung at a reasonable level in porch mode. Doors open.
    -20 TQ and UQ
    -Wearing very thin long underwear bottoms and top
    -Fleece beanie on head
    -Medium thickness wool socks
    -Sleeping from about 9pm to 7am
    -Basic gathered end hammock with 1.6 Argon
    -I had a "frost bib" around my neck and flipped up over to cover my face. So basically a layer of t-shirt material over my face. It was soaked and froze solid in areas away from my mouth and nose.

    When I woke up around 6am to pee on a tree, I felt the TQ and it was very wet. Some spots even began to freeze. I wiped it down the best I could with an extra sock and went back to bed. It's usually only the mid section between my chest to knees. I wasn't sweating at all and never felt too warm. Certainly not cold.

    I really wish I brought my vapor barrier liner to test again. That's the only other solution I can think of.

    Or is this fairly common and something I just deal with as "normal"? I just don't remember it so much in the past 7 years of hanging. I'm not sure if it's my breath, body vapor, or a combination of both.
    Impressive. Raises a lot of questions about why. And not really a big shocker that it is happening, but one thing to figure out is why didn't it happen before? I am guessing that it is not possible that this was from outside rain/snow, and thus it is some form of condensation? Which therefor is most likely coming from your body and then condensing, but could also possibly be, instead, exterior vapor condensing on your TQ?

    But if the latter, wouldn't it condense equally all over both quilts and tarp? And perhaps be less likely to condense over the mid section where core body warmth is more likely to keep the quilt warm enough to be above the dew point?

    So, I'm thinking the most likely culprit is your own body vapor condensing. But why does this seem to be happening much more lately? What has changed? Not likely that the source of the vapor- i.e. YOU - has changed. So, maybe some weird science combo of weather related factors- like dew point- coming together to nail you.

    And also, it could have been happening more in the past than you ever realized. Perhaps something keeping the vapor from condensing on your shell, but rather the dew point was previously moved further inward, so that any condensation happened in the middle of your down, where it was soaked up and not so noticeable, particularly on shorter trips.? I'm just wild guessing here. No idea, really.

    But we do pretty much know one thing: IF this is condensation of your body vapor, any VB will pretty much stop that from happening, 100%, as you know.

    Speaking of possibly using your VB at warmer temps than you had originally planned, I continue to push my boundaries for when I can use VB clothing. I'm using it in conditions I never thought I would(just as an experiment). Lately, my first response to going out in the cold or even just coolish, is too put on my VB shirt. And I am staying warmer than ever, and mostly getting away with it. It is a fine art, but it is becoming my norm. The key is to have either no insulation over it, or an amount of insulation that I would most likely be cold in. I have been hiking in 50-60*F, windy, over cast(no sun beating down on me, that makes a big dif at any temp). Typically I hit a bit over 2 miles with an average speed of 3.3 MPH. Usually thrown in there are one to 3 sprints of about 6-8 seconds, as fast as I can run. But here is what I have been doing different: not bothering to keep all insulation outside the VB, but just putting the VB shirt on over my long sleeve cotton shirt. Then, either using that VB shirt by itself as a wind shell and for very light rain, or, if cold enough, with my thinnest layer of insulation over that. Yes, I know that is not the best technique, but I want to see what I can get away with that is more convenient.

    I have been surprisingly dry and warm, wearing only cold blue jeans on my legs, and no hat. Usually, at about the last quarter mile, especially if I sprinted, it starts feeling humid or clammy, and I sometimes vent both the outermost layers and the VB shirt(I wish it had pit zips) around the neck. Usually my arms are feeling really humid(again, pit zips would help), but when I strip off the VB and shirt once at home, both are surprisingly dry, or maybe with a few drops of water in the sleeves. But I know from experience that if I had even slightly more insulation, or a slightly higher or longer exercise level, I would be wet. The trick seems to be going with a level of insulation where I would normally be cold(with out the VB), or I think I would. Then I end up warm, and pretty much dry. But when I use enough insulation to be comfy without a VB, I know dang well I am always pumping at least some moisture into my insulation. I can usually become really aware of this when I stop exercising.

    I've got a feeling if your moisture problems continue, you are going to start using your VB a lot more often.

  3. #13
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    It's been a year or two so I don't remember all the details, but on a cold night in Florida-maybe 40s I woke up with the inside of the tarp wet and dripping. No rain so it had to be condensate. When spending time in Shug's neighborhood I remember wearing a scarf around my face and having ice in my beard.

  4. #14
    Feels like to me frost is alot more likely on my topquilt when i go without a net or winter top, with a net or winter top the frost ends up on the net instead leaving the tq dry

  5. #15
    OneClick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    I've got a feeling if your moisture problems continue, you are going to start using your VB a lot more often.
    In the winter it will be crucial. Last winter was when I could feel wetness and icy crystals INSIDE the TQ. Another night would have been impossible. But at -16 I expect crazy stuff to start happening.

    I think if the wetness was from my breath, my entire TQ would be wet and even some of the UQ that is right up against my face. But that was all dry. And the inside of the tarp was 100% dry. Maybe I'll try lying a light blanket over my TQ...but good luck keeping that in place all night.

  6. #16
    cmoulder's Avatar
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    Maybe I'll try lying a light blanket over my TQ...but good luck keeping that in place all night.
    Almost certain that will work... pushes the dewpoint out. But the moisture will then collect in the blanket.
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

    Simplicity boils down to two steps: Identify the essential. Eliminate the rest. Leo Babauta

  7. #17
    OneClick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    Almost certain that will work... pushes the dewpoint out. But the moisture will then collect in the blanket.
    Actually I should have said something thinner, like a bed sheet for quicker drying. But would that even do anything?

  8. #18
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneClick View Post
    Actually I should have said something thinner, like a bed sheet for quicker drying. But would that even do anything?
    I will be interested to see if this still occurs with the use of a VB. Of course, if it is dew a VB probably won't help.But even your tarp was dry, right? As well as other areas other than the TQ right above your your body mostly in the middle? That doesn't sound like dew. I can have lots of dew collect- on everything- even when I did not sleep in the hammock, contributing my own vapor load.

  9. #19
    OneClick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    I will be interested to see if this still occurs with the use of a VB. Of course, if it is dew a VB probably won't help.But even your tarp was dry, right? As well as other areas other than the TQ right above your your body mostly in the middle? That doesn't sound like dew. I can have lots of dew collect- on everything- even when I did not sleep in the hammock, contributing my own vapor load.
    Yeah I discounted dew. EVERYTHING was dry...tarp inside and out, pulk (plastic), backpack, even the 16oz coke bottle sitting on the ground outside of the tarp. You would expect things like that to be wet or covered in frost.

    Like someone mentioned, that t-shirt material frost bib I had over my face would have been slowly releasing all that moisture...slowing "rolling" down my chest and collecting on the TQ. Maybe I'll try the hanging frost bib method.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Sunny Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneClick View Post
    Yeah I discounted dew. EVERYTHING was dry...tarp inside and out, pulk (plastic), backpack, even the 16oz coke bottle sitting on the ground outside of the tarp. You would expect things like that to be wet or covered in frost.

    Like someone mentioned, that t-shirt material frost bib I had over my face would have been slowly releasing all that moisture...slowing "rolling" down my chest and collecting on the TQ. Maybe I'll try the hanging frost bib method.
    I'm pretty sure Shug has or had a video about this. It's been some years but I remember him wearing and recommending a frost bib when hanging in sub zero temps.

    Sent from my SM-G930VL using Tapatalk

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