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  1. #1
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    Winter sock - how warm?

    For those of you who have a good winter sock or cover, how much warmth does it give vs the outside temp?

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    MAD777's Avatar
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    I have a very thin nylon sock. It maybe gives a few degrees bump, but I use it to block wind. That's when it earns its keep.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Mike
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    WalksIn2Trees's Avatar
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    basically just keeps creates a dead air space around you, which has it's pros and cons.

    I've seen "5" given as a general number, but temperature loss doesn't work that way.

    in other words, it's not much, but it's enough that you still appreciate having it, and after your mid-night pee, you'll find yourself closing it right back up after you climb back into that nice warm Quilt-set!

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    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalksIn2Trees View Post
    basically just keeps creates a dead air space around you, which has it's pros and cons.

    I've seen "5" given as a general number, but temperature loss doesn't work that way.
    Yeah, 5 degrees seems a bit generous, but some people swear by them. Like most folks, socks and top covers create too much condensation for me. It has to be below 15* F before I'll even consider using one.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAD777 View Post
    I have a very thin nylon sock. It maybe gives a few degrees bump, but I use it to block wind. That's when it earns its keep.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Do you use it with a tarp? With doors?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalksIn2Trees View Post
    basically just keeps creates a dead air space around you, which has it's pros and cons.

    I've seen "5" given as a general number, but temperature loss doesn't work that way.

    in other words, it's not much, but it's enough that you still appreciate having it, and after your mid-night pee, you'll find yourself closing it right back up after you climb back into that nice warm Quilt-set!

    Sent from my SM-T827V using Tapatalk

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    I notice that all of the commercial socks have vents. Doesn't that let a lot of the warmth out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneShootn View Post
    I notice that all of the commercial socks have vents. Doesn't that let a lot of the warmth out?
    In my opinion? No. I get just as much condensation with a bugnet as I do with a vented topcover. All three of my kids get just as much condensation as I do, so I guess they got my "condensation" gene. Do you lose warmth through the bugnet venting? Probably, but condensation collecting inside is the issue, not losing warmth through the vents.

    But there are people, like BillyBob58, who swears he has hardly ever gotten condensation, even using silnylon UQPs, ccf pads, bugnets and topcovers. If I had to guess, I'd say there are 20% of people who claim they don't get condensation from those things. However, I think they are simply in denial. Physiology is physiology, and it just can't be possible that "some people" don't experience condensation. Do they breathe different? Are they really not exhaling moisture like the rest of us?

    I have a Dutch Chameleon with top cover, and it's got this little strip of bugnet for venting. The idea is that you can somehow aim your breath towards the vent, so the moisture will exit that bugnetting without getting the entire topcover wet. Needless to say, I've never been able to aim my breath towards that bugnet - I always get condensation on the entire top cover. Besides, even if I were able to miraculously aim my breath towards that vent for an entire evening, the condensation would eventually freeze up in cold weather, and the vent then does no venting.

    But maybe you're one of that lucky 20% who claim to have no condensation with things like topcovers, silnylon UQPs, bugnets and pads. Good luck!
    Last edited by SilvrSurfr; 12-15-2019 at 01:32.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    In my opinion? No. I get just as much condensation with a bugnet as I do with a vented topcover. All three of my kids get just as much condensation as I do, so I guess they got my "condensation" gene. Do you lose warmth through the bugnet venting? Probably, but condensation collecting inside is the issue, not losing warmth through the vents.

    But there are people, like BillyBob58, who swears he has hardly ever gotten condensation, even using silnylon UQPs, ccf pads, bugnets and topcovers. If I had to guess, I'd say there are 20% of people who claim they don't get condensation from those things. However, I think they are simply in denial. Physiology is physiology, and it just can't be possible that "some people" don't experience condensation. Do they breathe different? Are they really not exhalinig moisture like the rest of us?

    I have a Dutch Chameleon with top cover, and it's got this little strip of bugnet for venting. The idea is that you can somehow aim your breath towards the vent, so the moisture will exit that bugnetting without getting the entire topcover wet. Needless to say, I've never been able to aim my breath towards that bugnet - I always get condensation on the entire top cover. Besides, even if I were able to miraculously aim my breath towards that vent for an entire evening, the condensation would eventually freeze up in cold weather, and the vent then does no venting.

    But maybe you're one of that lucky 20% who claim to have no condensation with things like topcovers, silnylon UQPs, bugnets and pads. Good luck!
    Interesting experience. Thanks. I'm thinking that I saw no evidence of condensation, because of the hydroscopic nature of the 210T taffeta fabric. It just soaks in and doesn't condense on top, which is okay by me. It's not noticeably damp, however, so a few minutes of airing out in the morning should take care of it. I just wish it was a bit smaller and lighter. Room in the pack is tight. More like nonexistant.

  10. #10
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    In my opinion? No. I get just as much condensation with a bugnet as I do with a vented topcover. All three of my kids get just as much condensation as I do, so I guess they got my "condensation" gene. Do you lose warmth through the bugnet venting? Probably, but condensation collecting inside is the issue, not losing warmth through the vents.

    But there are people, like BillyBob58, who swears he has hardly ever gotten condensation, even using silnylon UQPs, ccf pads, bugnets and topcovers. If I had to guess, I'd say there are 20% of people who claim they don't get condensation from those things. However, I think they are simply in denial. Physiology is physiology, and it just can't be possible that "some people" don't experience condensation. Do they breathe different? Are they really not exhalinig moisture like the rest of us?

    I have a Dutch Chameleon with top cover, and it's got this little strip of bugnet for venting. The idea is that you can somehow aim your breath towards the vent, so the moisture will exit that bugnetting without getting the entire topcover wet. Needless to say, I've never been able to aim my breath towards that bugnet - I always get condensation on the entire top cover. Besides, even if I were able to miraculously aim my breath towards that vent for an entire evening, the condensation would eventually freeze up in cold weather, and the vent then does no venting.

    But maybe you're one of that lucky 20% who claim to have no condensation with things like topcovers, silnylon UQPs, bugnets and pads. Good luck!
    Hi SS. No denial whatsoever, and it is NOT that I don't get condensation and sweat just like every one else. It is simply the facts and correct use of frost bibs and VBs. Wish I could camp with you some cold night to prove it to you, as you have been challenging me on this for quite a few years now. Actually, it kind of sounds like sometime you are saying you think I am lying. Are you? I would love to be able to show you. Although in recent times, there seem to be at least a few more, some closer to you, people who are finally putting these theories to the test and doing quite well, actually at least as well as I have always done. But who knows, maybe they are in denial also, just like Andrew Skurka and Dejoha.

    You may recall that the one time I used a total sock at my record of +6F https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...-VBs-and-HHSSs , I was fully expecting a lot of condensation. That is because it is quite possible for me to get just as much condensation as you do. In fact I have had more than a few soaked TQs(especially near the head/neck area), a soaked foot box and OCF pad, and many others through the years. And, when using that HH sock before (just for short time periods, I had never actually slept in it) I could always feel the humidity increase as soon as I closed it up, despite the 6" diameter vent near my face. But that night was also my first ever use of a frost bib(which was quite wet from- you guessed it- condensation! ) and one of my first time sleeping in full VB clothing. And except for that frost bib, dry a a bone. Never been drier! Have been much wetter when using no sock, and or no VBs. As many a person who ever reports a damp quilt here at HF has also been.

    Never has there been a truer statement than when you said:"Physiology is physiology". Also "and it just can't be possible that "some people" don't experience condensation. Do they breathe different? Are they really not exhalinig moisture like the rest of us?". You are stating truth, brother! OF COURSE I exhale moisture just like you do, and of course my skin cranks out moisture just like your skin does, and of course it will condense if I don't do something to prevent it! I have simply used the laws of physiology and physics to manage it properly, while you apparently have not. Why would you think - or think that I was claiming - that I do not exhale moisture? Surely you know that I have had problems with TQs wet from exhalation in the past, but in more recent times have managed that condensation nicely with a frost bib? Just like Shug does, and a few others do?

    But this is what I think you consistently miss, which causes you to think I am in denial. Apparently causes you to think that I am soaked in condensation but I am also hallucinating that I am dry. The law of physics that I have apparently never quite been able to get across to you is, even though I know you actually know this: condensation (ONLY?) occurs on cold surfaces that are below the dew point. I am willing to argue, based on the laws of physics, that even you can not condense on a warm surface. I'll bet you $10 you can not do so. If you are inside VB clothing, or laying with a space blanket sandwiched between thick insulation top and bottom which is keeping it about as warm as your skin or pretty close, your body vapor is NOT going to condense on that surface, which will not be at the dew point. The outer layers of your down insulation might well be at the dew point, but no VB close to your skin and under that insulation will be. Or at least extremely unlikely.

    And if that is true(it is), there are maybe only two sources of moisture inside moisture to be dealt with. The biggest source is breathing, and we have already dealt with that via frost bibs. But here is a tip for you: it is not going to matter one iota how breathable your sock is, or if it is sil-nylon. Just like it does not matter if it is your bug net. Warm breath vapor will hit that cold surface and condense on it, more often than not. Unless you manage to catch the breath on something else(frost bib) first. And if not dealt with(bib), I can also see a person side sleeping in a HH Super Shelter, breathing into a space blankets edge which is high above the pad and cold, getting some condensation which rolls down under the hammock. This may explain the few drops I have rarely had on my space blanket after a cold night, where as I am usually quite dry. (and no, I am not soaked and stubbornly denying it)

    The other source is sweat. Not condensation, but sweat. Now I actually think I produce abundant sweat, based on what I do on even a moderately warm day. But on this variable I will concede people can be quite different, and it is possible you sweat a whole lot more than I do. We all know people sitting around in the same room, one is comfortable, the other person is sweating. For nother, my wife and I can be sitting inthe same room and she is cold and I am almost warm enough to sweat. Obviously if I tried to sleep in the same amount of insulation as she would, I would be sweating VB or no VB(with my quilt absorbing the sweat(liquid, not vapor). So I readily concede that you might lay on a pad, or on top pf a space blanket right under the hammock in an HHSS, and end up with a wet back from sweating. But that is not condensation, and is unrelated to the condensation of your breath vapor inside a sock or net or on your TQ surface.

    You may have noticed that there are now several people here- and none considered insane- who have been sleeping in VB clothing or liners and have been very surprised at how dry they are the next morning inside their VBs. Of course, I can not prove they are not simply in stubborn denial. I guess it is possible.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 12-14-2019 at 23:29.

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