Hammock complexity an observation

[Jim S]

As a newbie I may be in a better position to make some observations about changes in hammocking. In the 70s I bought a polypropylene net hammock with stretchy polypro ropes. If you had about 100 pounds of force across it you could actually lay in it without it stretching to the ground. If you could get a sleeping bag into it, you couldn't get into the sleeping bag.

There was of course a great advertising photo on the net hammock package, of a guy lazing back happy go lucky and all comfy, not a care in the world. Well I get the idea that to hammockers the image of lazing back comfortably without a care in your simple hammock is still in your minds, while at the same time you have specially made hammocks, tarps, tarp doors quilts, under quilts, bug sleeves, whoopie cords, tree huggers, ridge lines etc.

There is also a one upmanship disdain for "tent" camping meaning sleeping on the ground, and yet many of the setups I have seen are nothing more than a hammock in a tent, the hammock basically becoming the "sleeping pad". I suspect that many hammockers switched because they were the ones who slept on 3/4 length single blue pads and found the ground to be rather hard.

When I talk about my hanging hammock tent, I get some obvious "we don't like tents and that won't work" attitudes, and yet look at the new tarp tents with doors that you guys are adapting, then look at over and under quilts. Remember when quilts were the new lighter simpler way to go? Your over and under quilts cost more and weigh more than my sleeping bag.

I still like to sleep on my 3" thick down filled air mattress on the ground inside a sleeping bag, and for winter, and rainy weather with wind driven rain, the tent is dryer, blows around less and is a snugger pace to dig into.

I want to keep my hummocking simple. I only use it because the ground is covered with lava rock here. I have a new Hammock tent design that is a full on tent that hangs up in the air around my hammock. Its 100% bug proof. I think it keeps hammocking simple and care free, but for bad weather I'm taking a 4 season tent.
Jim S

[angrysparrow]

HYOH...Hang Your Own Hammock!

[oldgringo]

You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion.

[JerryW]

I suspect that many hammockers switched because they were the ones who slept on 3/4 length single blue pads and found the ground to be rather hard.

I switched because my Big Agnes insulated air mattress still left me sore and restless.

Remember when quilts were the new lighter simpler way to go? Your over and under quilts cost more and weigh more than my sleeping bag.

My winter top quilt weighs 20 oz. My winter underquilt weighs 22oz. I can't imagine a winter tenters top quilt + ground pad, or sleeping bag + ground pad weighing less than that. I know mine wasn't even close. And summer is lighter still.

I still like to sleep on my 3" thick down filled air mattress on the ground inside a sleeping bag, and for winter, and rainy weather with wind driven rain, the tent is dryer, blows around less and is a snugger pace to dig into.

I never liked crawling on the ground, in the rain, to get in my tent. With my hammock and tarp I have a huge dry area to stand up and move around or sit in my hammock and relax.

To each his own. HYOH.

Jerry

[Cannibal]

a guy lazing back happy go lucky and all comfy, not a care in the world. Well I get the idea that to hammockers the image of lazing back comfortably without a care in your simple hammock is still in your minds, while at the same time you have specially made hammocks, tarps, tarp doors quilts, unThere was of course a great advertising photo on the net hammock package, of der quilts, bug sleeves, whoopie cords, tree huggers, ridge lines etc.

In an attempt to find common ground; I agree with the part about the visual. Spot on! I'm not sure I understand the rest of the point you are making. I assume, based on the rest of the post, that you believe these things to be negatives. Not quite sure how it can be seen as a bad thing to improve one's experiences.

Tents have evolved in my short lifetime from canvas to sil and spinn. Geodesic shapes greatly improved the tents' abilities to handle hostile weather. Sleeping technology has made huge leaps in terms of weight to warmth. Vestibules were added for convenience and bug netting was incorporated into the basic design. Let's see, there are tent fans, suspended interior shelves, bathtub floors, carbon fiber tent poles, etc.

Tell me how all that is different from what we're doing with hammocks.

[hangnout]

I want to keep my hummocking simple. I only use it because the ground is covered with lava rock here. I have a new Hammock tent design that is a full on tent that hangs up in the air around my hammock. Its 100% bug proof. I think it keeps hammocking simple and care free

This forum has some very innovative members and encourages new ideas. Sometimes our first ideas need some help and we have seen some new products develop on this forum to a marketable version. One example is probably the Molly Pack. Feedback on prototypes and design was openly discussed on forum and tested by members until the final version was completed.

Tent hammocks have been marketed before



http://www.lawsonhammock.com/store/v...dProduct=4387#

http://www.eurekatent.com/p-165-chry...ck-system.aspx

http://www.junglehammock.com/

http://hennessyhammock.com/catalogue.html

http://www.campmor.com/g-i-style-jun...ci_sku=41118WC

If someone came up with a better design than any of these I think this forum would support the development of the product. How is your design going to differ from these? And why would you want to knock hammocks that look like tents if you want to design and market one?

[beep]

Hmmm...hammock tent?

For the same reasons I switched from tent to tarp, I am not persuaded that a new "tent" around my hammock would be an improvement. My hammock already has bugnetting for 3 season usage (none is needed in colder weather) and my tarp provides rain and adjustable wind protection while permitting air circulation.

If you want to compare apples to apples for weight, you'll have to compare TQ and UQ total weight to your sleeping bag AND sleeping pad total weights. The tent weight compares to tarp plus hammock weight.

I am willing to trade having to find appropriate hanging trees in return for avoiding the need for level ground for a tent. And I have never found a tent/pad/sleeping bag combination as comfortable as my hammock.

I look forward to learning more about your ideas for a hammock tent. We are sufficiently inured to tinkering to appreciate that some concepts take some trial-and-error to reach fruition.

We are fortunate to have choices and to have a chance at participating in the evolution of some newer gear and combinations thereof.

[lori]

Jim, you can chalk up exuberance and enthusiasm of people who would be forced to stop backpacking if not for the hammock to elitist arrogance if you like, but some of us are just so happy to hike for day after day minus the sore hips and cold back, we just can't help bubbling over with joy to anyone within hearing range.

There are also those of us who find other forums to be less than welcoming - you will never find people bagging on people who use tents, yet in forum after forum, people get jumped all over for "pretending" hammocks are great for backpacking. It's happened to me, and I left the forum shortly after. So part of the insistence of hammockers that a camping hammock and associated paraphernalia are worth packing can also be a reaction to that sort of confrontation - it gave me a certain flinch reaction when I venture into a new forum and post hesitatingly about hammocking, but it's helped so many people to get off the ground that it seems almost criminal not to offer the option when folks are struggling with sore joints on the ground.

Really, your nice new tent option for me would be duplication - my hammock and tarp already provide bug free and weather worthy shelter, whether on the ground or on trees, whatever may come, and I also have a tarptent in my gear box for those rare occasions I know there won't be any hanging opportunities. But it may be something someone else might find useful - there are many types of tarps, one fellow here used a homemade tarp tent with beaks over his hammock, and there are hammock socks, and someone else threw together air beams like a Nemo tent to use with their Blackbird - innovate away, perhaps you can find something for the nonDIY folks who would rather just buy the tarp/tent for their hammock.

[gargoyle]

Jim, meet Ewker..Ewker, Jim. you have a lot in common.


If your more comfortable in your tent, thats great, for you. You seem like a decent guy with tons of backwoods experience. I apologized earlier ( on your tent/hammock thread) and I for one enjoy the brain storming your trying to do to adapt your tent into a hammock...that sounds really simple? I, in no way, meant to sound like your idea won't work, it might be the next new 'great idea'?? who nows? What works good in a dry climate, may not be the ticket everwhere else.

But you have tweeked and built your tent and I'm sure it all that you need. That took a huge learning curve, and years of fine tuning, hammocks are no different. If you come here looking for advice , or hammock chat, great. If your coming here to turn this into some sort of personal vendetta, then go to BPL or WB and start arguing over there.

I'm sure thats not the case.

(Hows your project going?)

Set your tent up on those lava rocks, we hang in our cozy (heavy?) hammocks.

[Just Jeff]

When I talk about my hanging hammock tent, I get some obvious "we don't like tents and that won't work" attitudes

Jim - I think you may be misinterpreting the tone of this forum. The comments you received in your other thread, for example, are because we've tried many of those ideas or ideas similar enough to yours that we thought we could provide helpful feedback. Like how to manage condensation, for example. I think everyone who offered a critique (not a criticism) also wished you luck in your endeavor and encouraged you to post pictures so we could all learn from your experience. Learning from each others' experiences is what we do here; it's one of the main purposes of the forum.

We encourage new and innovative ideas, and get excited when new members post something provocative, as you did. But frankly, if you expect everyone to simply agree with your posts rather than providing honest feedback based on our collective years of experience here, then perhaps you shouldn't post those particular ideas.

Even the experienced members here disagree with each other all the time...and when we do, it usually ends with what angrysparrow just said. "Hang your own hammock."