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  1. #1

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    Fabric and Fill Primer

    Ive been looking for a summary of fill weights and fabric types as I contemplate a colder weather TQ. My goal is to find something that is compact and lightweight; trying to get as UL as possible so I can extend my season. For reference, my current ancient 20 degree bag weighs 58 ounces. I think I can do better.

    Is this a fair representation of the state of affairs regarding fill power and materials ?

    Interestingly, Im not seeing fabric selection options on sites such as HG. My UQ is HG and Id buy their TQ provided it can be configured to minimize bulk and weight. EE a close second ( provided their temp ratings are more realistic than they were 6 years or so ago when I bought my current 40 quilt).
    Last edited by Bobonli; 10-21-2020 at 14:22.

  2. #2
    FLTurtle's Avatar
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    That EE link you posted is kinda busted (needs the colon after the https).

    I think the fabrics are different between the HG Econ and Premium lines (along with 800 vs 850/950 down), but they don't offer the level of customizations that other vendors have. Check their FAQ: https://hammockgear.com/econ-vs-premium/

    WB and UGQ have a lot more options for customization, with UGQ having several different fabrics to choose from.

    Honestly though, any of them will come in at less than half the weight of your 58oz 20 bag.

  3. #3

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    Fixed the link

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by FLTurtle View Post
    That EE link you posted is kinda busted (needs the colon after the https).

    I think the fabrics are different between the HG Econ and Premium lines (along with 800 vs 850/950 down), but they don't offer the level of customizations that other vendors have. Check their FAQ: https://hammockgear.com/econ-vs-premium/

    WB and UGQ have a lot more options for customization, with UGQ having several different fabrics to choose from.

    Honestly though, any of them will come in at less than half the weight of your 58oz 20 bag.
    Yeah I know that most of these companies are making good stuff. I’m just trying my best to control weight/bulk so I don’t have to carry a larger pack than necessary. And of course I didn’t think about this 8 weeks ago when I should have! I’m always a half season off with my purchases.

  5. #5
    FLTurtle's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm more at reducing bulk instead of weight. I'm ok with the HG Econ line. Both my 40F and 20F sets use the same size stuff sacks (4.5L for the 3/4 UQs and 5.5L for the TQs). For pack size, what capacity you looking for? I can get all my gear plus 4-5 days of food into my Arc Blast, with some room to spare.

  6. #6
    cmoulder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobonli View Post
    Yeah I know that most of these companies are making good stuff. I’m just trying my best to control weight/bulk so I don’t have to carry a larger pack than necessary. And of course I didn’t think about this 8 weeks ago when I should have! I’m always a half season off with my purchases.
    The strategy I use in the winter is to sleep in my down parka AND down pants (Montbell TEC) which permits me to carry a lighter TQ. I have an older 20deg Enigma, and, as you have observed, the ratings on the older EEs are generally agreed to be a tad 'generous', but even so I have used this combo down to -6F with no problems. Down pants are a frequently overlooked winter piece, but once you've used them you'll never be without them again.

    I think that nowadays EE ratings are much more realistic. I have a 7D/950FP 30deg Enigma that weighs 14.12oz and compresses to an amazingly small volume. If you look at their chart now, the displayed weight (same 30deg spec as above) is about 15.4oz, so maybe they're now adding even more down (?) At any rate, the 20deg with the 7D/950 spec weights about 18oz, which is pretty darn good.
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ) Instagram (me!)

    To equip a pedestrian with shelter, bedding, utensils, food, and other necessities, in a pack so light and small that he can carry it without overstrain, is really a fine art. ~ Horace Kephart, 1906

  7. #7

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    My plan was to go with a 20 deg TQ and then add down clothing if needed. I don’t know how deep into the cold season I’ll go, but I know my 40 degree EE won’t get me much below 45. Late last fall I had to put on a sweater and puffy but that was before I added the UQ

    Does the cinch cord on the EE hang right down on your face? I’ve seen it described that way in a review or two.

  8. #8
    cmc4free's Avatar
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    The cinch cord is top center, but I've never let it hang on my face. I tuck it inside.

    Mine is a 40 Enigma, otherwise the same spec as cmoulder's 30.

    No question though, if the goal is truly minimizing both weight and bulk for a given temperature rating, 7D fabric and 950FP down are the best materials to accomplish that.

  9. #9
    cmoulder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobonli View Post
    My plan was to go with a 20 deg TQ and then add down clothing if needed. I don’t know how deep into the cold season I’ll go, but I know my 40 degree EE won’t get me much below 45. Late last fall I had to put on a sweater and puffy but that was before I added the UQ

    Does the cinch cord on the EE hang right down on your face? I’ve seen it described that way in a review or two.
    Quote Originally Posted by cmc4free View Post
    The cinch cord is top center, but I've never let it hang on my face. I tuck it inside.

    Mine is a 40 Enigma, otherwise the same spec as cmoulder's 30.

    No question though, if the goal is truly minimizing both weight and bulk for a given temperature rating, 7D fabric and 950FP down are the best materials to accomplish that.
    I'm the same as cmc4free regarding the top cinch cord... doesn't bother me in the least. It doesn't go over the face anyway, since the quilt is cinched around the shoulders/neck and not over the top of the head.
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ) Instagram (me!)

    To equip a pedestrian with shelter, bedding, utensils, food, and other necessities, in a pack so light and small that he can carry it without overstrain, is really a fine art. ~ Horace Kephart, 1906

  10. #10
    aka 'Extra' MikekiM's Avatar
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    My warmest TQ is a HG Premium 20F Burrow with 950. Lighterpack tells me it is 18.79oz. Paired with either a Premium 950 Incubator (20.6oz) it is my primary quilt set. I do have a HG 0F Premium Incubator with an extra baffle added to the width, and then 2+ overfill. It is an oven and I have used it only once. I have took a chapter out of cmoulders book and sleep with Montbell TEC down pants (14.9 oz), a Montbell EX 1000fp down Anorak (6 oz) and added possum down socks with the 20F combo and I have yet to be cold. If temps are notably lower, the 0F will do the trick along with a UQP.

    Those down pants weight a ton but I have to say they are my single favorite winter gear item. Versatile, comfortable and bordering on decadent when you put them on around camp. I started with a pair of inexpensive down pants from Amazon and loved the idea, then switched to the Montbell for a full length zipper and more robust fabric. Worth every penny.

    I used a 20F Econ set for two or three seasons and in all rights, it was fine. It didn't pack as small and weighed a few ounces more, but it got me out and kept me warm.

    I used to complain about the TQ cinch cord, but for some reason, it no longer bothers me.
    Yes, my pack weighs 70lbs, but it's all light weight gear....
    Bob's brother-in-law

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