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  1. #1
    SoDakOverland's Avatar
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    Amsteele Blue Cheat Sheet for dummies

    So as you are aware from the questions I've had I am new to the hammock world. I decided it was time to take my skills and bought a 600 foot roll of 7/64. I have been a flurry of building shackles, whoopie slings, continuous loops, rings, pack loops, daisy chains etc etc. What I have found is not a single two of any of these things are the same size. Has someone created a cheat sheet with measurements to produce many of these items to some modicum of decency and similarity? I have searched and read and watched youtube but have yet to find the magic equations of if you want an x(whoopie sling - eg) of y length start with z inches of amsteele 7/64. I have been getting close but my OCD is killing me since I am coming up like up to an inch difference on some 12ft slings I have built. And 1/4 to 1/2 difference on continuous loops. Is this just what I have to live with or is there some magic to help me along?

    On another note has anyone done like a paracord bracelet with Amsteele to keep a good chunk of it with them on trail or would this be a bad idea for some reason? I'm thinking of doing one with a breakaway buckle just to carry some extra cord with me on the trail.

  2. #2
    GilligansWorld's Avatar
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    Here is a lot of "cheat sheets" incorporated in a spreadsheet for making hammocks and tarps. Tabs at the bottom of the excel sheet have lots of stuff.

    Cheers.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz3...w?usp=drivesdk

    Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
    Be The light in Someone's Darkness - Change the World one Act of Compassion, One Act of Kindness at a Time - We are All Living on Borrowed Time
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  3. #3
    SoDakOverland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GilligansWorld View Post
    Here is a lot of "cheat sheets" incorporated in a spreadsheet for making hammocks and tarps. Tabs at the bottom of the excel sheet have lots of stuff.

    Cheers.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz3...w?usp=drivesdk

    Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
    A great start I like the calculator on the suspension page. Watched the video and found the calc on L-36.com very helpful. Any other info floating around out there?

  4. #4
    GilligansWorld's Avatar
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    Be The light in Someone's Darkness - Change the World one Act of Compassion, One Act of Kindness at a Time - We are All Living on Borrowed Time
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfJ...XMJUMaraHGfzhA

  5. #5
    SoDakOverland's Avatar
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    Thank you.

  6. #6
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    actually, your numbers sound like you're doing pretty well.

    if you require more consistency than this, you will need to identify, on a case by case basis, where the inconsistency arises, and figure out a way to eliminate it by incorporating a final adjustment step in the process. (before i continue, i'll point out i chose the other option: i just live with some variability in length as long as it is suitable for the purpose, but that's because of my personal preference: i would rather not do too much trimming, and thus wasting of time and material).

    for instance: with a softshackle, the button knot is the main source of inconsistency, and the second source is the length of the burries of the legs under the knot. the only way to make that go away is by allowing for a final adjustment step after pre-tightening the knot, and pulling it through and down to your desired position, then tighten again, re-check, and when it is within a few mm of your target, proceed to burry the legs, for your exact pre-determined length, and trim the excess (you must have excess to trim, otherwise it's almost impossible). this ends up being an itterative, and very tedious process for each softshackle, and keep in mind the final step of pulling the softshackle really tight (preloading by mechanical means, not just by hand, before use) will give you the final, true length of the shackle. similar re-designing of the process can be done for other things (but soft shackles are probably the most tricky and time consuming).

    again, i prefer to focus on what is important for functionality and strength, but i admit it is hard (it bugs me too), i just pick my battles.

  7. #7
    GilligansWorld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanok View Post
    actually, your numbers sound like you're doing pretty well.

    if you require more consistency than this, you will need to identify, on a case by case basis, where the inconsistency arises, and figure out a way to eliminate it by incorporating a final adjustment step in the process. (before i continue, i'll point out i chose the other option: i just live with some variability in length as long as it is suitable for the purpose, but that's because of my personal preference: i would rather not do too much trimming, and thus wasting of time and material).

    for instance: with a softshackle, the button knot is the main source of inconsistency, .........
    Tac blades has a video out using over hand knot - far safer and less inconsistency - see below;

    https://youtu.be/r0SfPxJcACM

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  8. #8
    Senior Member GrizzlyAdams's Avatar
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    I've made bridge hammocks with Amsteel suspension along the side (rather than webbing), with splicing to create loops that admit the tips of the spreader bars. Really important to get lengths and splices just right so that you have two cord sides that not only are the same size, but align as they need to with the already cut hammock body.
    Otherwise the spreader bars aren't going straight across and/or the tips aren't hitting the right place in the body cut.

    It's like making two loops, one at each end of a 6' length of Amsteel, and needing to get two of these things as close to the same finished length as you can, and knowing what the finished
    length needs to be. It ain't easy.

    There are a number of things I do to try to achieve this goal. One is to stretch the cord first. The different between a stretched and un-stretched 8' length can be as much as inch. Sounds like a lot but it is only 1% of the length, but too much for my purposes. Then I use a ruler to mark out as precisely as I can how much of the cord ends I'll untangle to make the taper. I use the same method and same lengths to and the same pattern of strands to select to trim when making the taper. I mark out just where to pass the cord end in and how far to pull it through making locked Brummels or the equivalent. Even with all this there is variation due to the width of markers used to mark lengths, variation depending on precisely the strands you pass an end through, etc.

    Doing all these I'll get variation in the lengths on the order of 1/4", which is good enough, but there's a lot of room in the processes to introduce more. This is not the most fun or interesting part of making the hammock but it probably is the most exacting, and enough to make one use webbing on the sides instead!

    For Amsteel gadgets that don't need the precision I don't worry so much about it.
    Grizz
    (alias ProfessorHammock on youtube)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GilligansWorld View Post
    Tac blades has a video out using over hand knot - far safer and less inconsistency - see below;

    https://youtu.be/r0SfPxJcACM

    Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
    yeah, that's one of the main known methods, it has the advantage that one doesn't need to learn how to tie the button knot, but that's about it.

    the main disadvantages are 1 (and biggest one): it is very difficult to tighten the stopper knot properly, and requires some serious mechanical advantage device to do so (winch or the like); if not tightened properly, the break strength can be much lower, and it might be hard to predict, without destructive testing, how much lower, and which individual softshackles would be affected how much. 2. it's very difficult, nearly impossible, to adjust length precisely (as it is determined by the two splices, which are the first step), which is the topic of this thread. 3 the stopper is much bigger, without making it more secure than using the button knot. a bigger stopper knot might be desirable at times though, i guess.

    here's a nice overview and some tests of a few methods, including this one:

    https://www.balancecommunity.com/blo...hackle-methods

    (and even more comprehensive one was on evans starzingers website, but sadly that is no longer available)

    ps: the retention method shown in the video, using a turkshead "collar", is evidently unsafe, and should only be used for non critical loads, but i guess that goes without saying

  10. #10
    GilligansWorld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanok View Post
    yeah, that's one of the main known methods, it has the advantage that one doesn't need to learn how to tie the button knot, but that's about it. I don't share your opion

    the main disadvantages are 1 (and biggest one): it is very difficult to tighten the stopper knot properly, and requires some serious mechanical advantage device to do so (winch or the like) - I exclusively tie this knot and it isn't difficult to tighten 2. it's very difficult, nearly impossible, to adjust length precisely (as it is determined by the two splices, which are the first step) again I disagree as with anything practice is the key . 3 the stopper is much bigger, without making it more secure..... - even in the link you provided it is the safest knot tested.

    here's a nice overview and some tests of a few methods, including this one:

    https://www.balancecommunity.com/blo...hackle-methods
    The only "disadvantage" is more cordage. This IS THE SAFEST KNOT PERIOD that I have had experience with and have seen in use.
    C.jpg
    All of the other methods you displayed in your link can be turned inside out with load. NO OTHER KNOT YOU LINKED to is safe to use. Meaning those knots can and wil invert and fail prior to the cord failing. The splice just has to be longer to make sure the overhand knot doesn't use it all up. Easy peasy.
    Be The light in Someone's Darkness - Change the World one Act of Compassion, One Act of Kindness at a Time - We are All Living on Borrowed Time
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