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  1. #1
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    Hammock ridgeline spliced

    I was fiddling around, making a hammock fixed length structural ridgeline.
    I use 1/8 amsteel, knowing itís overkill.

    Tried to make ridgeline 9 feet 6 inches for my new 11 and a half feet hammock. After making locked brummels on both ends and rather long buries, my finished ridgeline measured 10 feet long!
    Hard to get length right, when using a long bury and locked brummels!

    I said ok, I might use that 10 foot ridgeline on my 12 foot hammock.

    Next I made another spliced ridgeline. This time with no locked brummels.

    The eye splices on each end were temporarily adjustable, so I could adjust and get almost exactly the length specified.

    After adjusting length, I milked the bury and set the splice by pulling real hard.

    Then I tied the splice into an overhand knot and tightened it real tight.

    Then I buried the last few inches of inner core.

    In theory, this overhand knot in the finished splice (both inner bury and outer sheath, will keep the splice from getting shorter or longer.

    I could have sewn through the amsteel to keep the splice from adjusting to either a larger or smaller eye splice.

    I used long burys, around two feet long. I might experiment with two foot long bury. Try same process as just mentioned except no locked brummels, no sewing, and no overhand knot.

    Maybe just the length of long bury will keep splice in place, once bury has been milked and entire splice pulled tight by handóand then supersetting the splice by initially hanging at somewhat less than 30*. This will pull the splices real hard and set those buries. Maybe that will work.

    Still testing splices secured with an overhand knot.
    If no one tries anything new, then how else will we grow?!?!?

  2. #2
    Senior Member fugalster's Avatar
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    A non-locked brummel is a great idea for tweaking the length to where you need it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Grappler View Post
    I could have sewn through the amsteel to keep the splice from adjusting to either a larger or smaller eye splice.
    Sewing through the amsteel is really easy, you might give that a shot. Though really it's only the first inch or so of the burry (near the eye) that needs to be secured. It doesn't need to be load bearing, just prevent the burry from pulling out. In fact, and eye spliced this way is stronger than a locked brummel because there isn't a stress concentration at the locked bummel (similar to a knot). Arborists will make life supporting slings this way with some simple hand stitching (they use larger rope, obviously, but the principle is the same). Maybe some other mechanical (or adhesive??) locking could be employed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Grappler View Post
    If no one tries anything new, then how else will we grow?!?!?
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  3. #3
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    Yes, might try your idea, a spot of glue, maybe midways of bury. Inject into bury. Would have to be a flexible, waterproof glue, that works and does not damage amsteel.
    No guarantees, worth trying.

  4. #4
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    if you have extra length by error or design, you can use it to add an Alpine/butterfly knot in the line. It will serve as a connection point for a ridge line organizer or peak bag and will make very little impact on the strength of the ridge line. Changing to loop of the butterfly knot takes up more or less slack in the overall length of the ridge line.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  5. #5
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    I'm using whoopie ridge line because my sweet spot is longer than OEM on several of my hammocks. But if I need to use the bug net I can reef in the whoopie to OEM specs. I have also used a CL on one end of the ridge line in conjunction with biner wraps to experiment with just what length makes Goldilocks's bears smile, "Ah, just right.".

  6. #6
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    i think we need an "experimentation and tinkering" topic/hashtag (or what is it called these days)

    making exact size splices is so much of a pain for my taste that i cheat any chance i get to avoid it (for instance, all my ridgelines are UCR). i will either make things adjustable when necessary, or design the solution so precision of length is not crucial. so i feel your pain.

    a few thoughts that might help:

    - i guess the only "official" way really is to test the line you work with to work out the shrinkage factor, so you end up with a formula along the lines of "for 10 inches of tail buried, i lose 1.2inches", and then measure and mark precisely to get the result you want, taking the shrinkage into consideration. but that's so tedious i never do it myself.

    - calculating the shrinkage factor is still very useful though, and it's easy to do (and kind of fun, in my book). final measurement should be taken after loading the whole thing to at least "expected working load", of course (ideally double that i'd say)

    having the shrinkage factor in your pocket, you have some options to achieve very precise results (some of which you mentioned), let me see if i can come up with anything worth adding

    - the simplest, although you already mentioned it, is to just do a straight splice, and stitch it (stitching by hand is quite easy and sufficient, as it's there only to keep the splice stable when not loaded). the problem is that it's a bit of a pain to get accurate results, as there's nothing holding the splice put while you're adjusting for your desired length. it is the strongest solution though, but doesn't have much else going for it, for this purpose. i understand why you didn't go for that.

    - the locked brummel i'm starting to like less and less, to be honest. i've been using it a lot, and i have serious doubts regarding it (but maybe that's for a separate discussion). what i would suggest trying might seem counterintuitive: do a "wrong" brummel (unbrummel? unlocked brummel? sliding brummel rather. baptising services needed). if you make the brummel the "wrong" way around, what happens is that if some of the tail will come out of the bury, the slack would be taken up by the eye shrinking slightly. if the size of the eye is not critical, this is actually a safer solution than the locked brummel (ugh. i said separate discussion). the side effect of this is that it makes it very easy to adjust the splice size to what you want it precisely, with a pre-defined tail length to be burried (so you can use your shrink factor without headache), and then, when you reach the exact length + shrink factor, you can make the second pass of this un-brummel, and then bury the tail and get the result you want, all done without calculations or ugly marks (you don't even need a ruler if you have a yardstick or model for what you're aiming for). if the tail starts pulling out, the eye will start to shrink and the total length will increase slightly, but it will never come apart completely on you, as long as there's something in the eye (carabiner, other line etc), and it will give plenty of prior warning long before that happens (unlike a straight splice), it will also tend itself meanwhile (if it pulls out a bit, the eye takes up the slack next time it is loaded, and the splice is again in tension, taking the full load of the line, and not leaving it on the brummel, which is too weak to handle it)

    - the overhand in the splice, i see three issues with at first glance: it changes the overall length, so needs to be taken into account, and adjusting through trial and error would be a pain. it is bulky (which defeats one of the advantages of splices). it weakens the line significantly (i can't find quickly any numbers, but it's not great). however, this might be a little bit less of a problem, because of the knot being on the thicker spliced part (so the rope diameter the knot is in is a bit bigger, which will make the break strength a bit higher). it also makes "maintenance" tasks on the splice a bit of a pain

    (of course, i understand for a ridge line made of 1/8in (3mm) uhmwpe strength is not a top concern, but i'm thinking of it generally)

    the splice being longer i'm not sure would help enough: the problem is what happens when the spliced line is packed and bunched up (so unloaded, and "compressed", as in the opposite of milked, when it comes to the bury)

    i think the glue idea actually sounds quite promising. one issue i see is that it would be impossible to inspect to make sure it is in place/intact. another thing is it might create a "shear interface" for the fibers to fail on, depending how well the glue bonds with them, and how rigid it is (so some not so strong glue, which is flexible and waterproof, might be better). i'd load test to destruction before using such thing though, as strange things might happen, but iirc dyneema is quite chemically inert and doesn't bond well with most glues, so this might actually work very well

    the butterfly in dyneema either slides or reduces the line strength significantly, depending in which configuration it is used

  7. #7
    cmoulder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Grappler View Post
    I was fiddling around, making a hammock fixed length structural ridgeline.
    I use 1/8 amsteel, knowing itís overkill.

    Tried to make ridgeline 9 feet 6 inches for my new 11 and a half feet hammock. After making locked brummels on both ends and rather long buries, my finished ridgeline measured 10 feet long!
    Hard to get length right, when using a long bury and locked brummels!

    I said ok, I might use that 10 foot ridgeline on my 12 foot hammock.

    Next I made another spliced ridgeline. This time with no locked brummels.

    The eye splices on each end were temporarily adjustable, so I could adjust and get almost exactly the length specified.

    After adjusting length, I milked the bury and set the splice by pulling real hard.

    Then I tied the splice into an overhand knot and tightened it real tight.

    Then I buried the last few inches of inner core.

    In theory, this overhand knot in the finished splice (both inner bury and outer sheath, will keep the splice from getting shorter or longer.

    I could have sewn through the amsteel to keep the splice from adjusting to either a larger or smaller eye splice.

    I used long burys, around two feet long. I might experiment with two foot long bury. Try same process as just mentioned except no locked brummels, no sewing, and no overhand knot.

    Maybe just the length of long bury will keep splice in place, once bury has been milked and entire splice pulled tight by handóand then supersetting the splice by initially hanging at somewhat less than 30*. This will pull the splices real hard and set those buries. Maybe that will work.

    Still testing splices secured with an overhand knot.
    If no one tries anything new, then how else will we grow?!?!?
    Might also make the eye loop with a simple overhand knot and bury the tail to keep it neater looking and prevent fraying.

    I like the spiffy look of a locked brummel as much as the next guy but for a quick field fix Zing-it and a couple of overhands will do the trick.

    But I do appreciate knot-haid experimentation.
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  8. #8
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    Cmoulder, your solution is as good as or better than any ideas Iíve got.
    Shug does something similar, making a bight and overhand knot, and eliminated the splice.

    Great minds think alike, solving problems with similar paths.
    Fast, lightweight, cost conscious, and effective.

    I say if your way works for you, keep it.....
    Unless you get to fidgeting, while watching knot videos....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    Might also make the eye loop with a simple overhand knot and bury the tail to keep it neater looking and prevent fraying.

    I like the spiffy look of a locked brummel as much as the next guy but for a quick field fix Zing-it and a couple of overhands will do the trick.

    But I do appreciate knot-haid experimentation.
    actually, i think this might be a bit more than a quick field fix. i avoid the overhand myself but i guess i'm just a bit of a knot snob, but i do exactly as you describe, except with a diamond knot instead. although it is a bit more involved to tie than an overhand, it has some advantages: it's probably much stronger in dyneema, and it is a proper stopper, and it's amazing the things you can do with a good stopper knot with a loop hanging from it, one of the most versatile tools i find. i've been playing a lot with this lately, and i was in fact meaning to write up a bit about it, thanks for reminding me.

    now you got me thinking, if i'm such a "knot snob", can i think of a knot that's less "offensive" and equally easy to tie for the application you describe? hmmm

  10. #10
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    Nanok, youíve given a lot of thought towards improving suspensions and ridgelines for hammocks and tarps.
    Even though Iíve failed to add photos to my descriptions of various efforts, I am better able to see your ideas when you have photos or videos.
    Iíve been shown how to add photos and am too lazy to learn.

    If I have an eye splice with a long bury, a foot long, I can tie an overhand knot in middle of bury.
    Once tightened, the overhand knot STOPS the eye splice from getting larger or smaller.
    Too bad, overhand knot makes a bump.
    I use 1/8 amsteel, the splice has two ropes of 1/8 amsteel, one inside the other. Even though, knots weaken rope, I donít think it will break while hammock camping, or even a few bounces will be ok
    Destructive testing is another story. The overhand knot will weaken the splice. Probably not enough to cause me any worry.

    Phantom off on a tangent....
    Suppose you have a UCR utility constrictor rope,
    or a whoopie slingóand either one was slipping when loaded.
    A temporary fix could be, tie a marlin spike hitch in middle of either UCR or whoopie spliced bury.
    My Phantom sense tells me, marlin spike hitch would stop splice from slipping, just like my overhand knot stops eye splice from getting larger or smaller. Not sure.
    This fix could be good till you get back home and make splice longer, or with less slick rope.

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