Tree huggers slipping when first loaded

[onlysmallexplosions]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the responses. I will definitely try switching out the dutch clips for evo loops and centering my straps coming off the tree.

That said, I've tried to double wrap my straps around the trees but the same thing happens, the part of the strap that comes off the tree and down to the hammock always slides down a bit, taking a bit of bark with it. I've tried wrapping the straps so that the second wrap is above the first, ie it has to pull down on both before it can slip but I get the same result.

Any tips or tricks for getting a double wrap to work?

[joe_guilbeau]

Use the constrictor knot/clove hitch method with your strap.

Cheesy music, but you get the point. Have fun getting it off the tree...

[nanok]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the responses. I will definitely try switching out the dutch clips for evo loops and centering my straps coming off the tree.

That said, I've tried to double wrap my straps around the trees but the same thing happens, the part of the strap that comes off the tree and down to the hammock always slides down a bit, taking a bit of bark with it. I've tried wrapping the straps so that the second wrap is above the first, ie it has to pull down on both before it can slip but I get the same result.

Any tips or tricks for getting a double wrap to work?

welcome to the forum, and your questions are much appreciated here: one cannot be too worried about what happens to the trees we hang from.

what you are describing is basically unavoidable, when using the tree straps in the typical way (strangle style, to put it bluntly). double wrapping will indeed not change much in terms of what you describe and are concerned about. i investigated this issue, and others related to it in some detail, and arrived at the conclusion that the only logical solution is to change how we use the straps, so that we load them from both sides. while this might seem a bit more complicated at first, it brings significant advantages (not only protects the trees, but also reduces the amount of webbing required for the same tree size, and a few other advantages). i have yet to finalize documenting this, so that it is easy to replicate and use by more people, but i wrote about my attempts in some detail (maybe too much) in another thread here

in short, the main problem is the capstan effect on the tree: when loading the strap only on one side, the strap wants to "twist" the tree bark off the tree (due to the friction on the bark, if there was no or little friction, it would just strangle the tree very hard, which is arguably even worse); to see the effect, put the same strap on your hand, and pull, you will see how quickly it becomes uncomfortable; then with the same strap around the same arm, pull this time on both ends of the strap, instead of just one, you will see the difference is huge for the same load). the other side effect is that, because of the friction, most of the load from the hammock is distributed on a relatively short length of strap (the tension doesn't go around the tree, so to speak; this is why wrapping several times doesn't really help). additionally, keep in mind the load from the hammock comes to the tree at a roughly 30degree angle (depending on your hang angle), so the strap will never want to be horizontal on the tree, it will want to be correspondingly higher on the back of the tree compared to the front (so if one tries to force it to be horizontal, it will tend to slide down at the front where there's most load, in order to conform to the direction of the suspension, which is what you observe and are trying to prevent).

the "proper*" solution is to load both ends of the strap, thus distributing the load between the two sides of the strap (so less concentrated stress on the tree), and also putting more of the load on the back of the tree, where it belongs, and reducing the (parasitic, useless to us) strangling action on the front, which is causing the damage you are trying to prevent. the only problem with this is that it's a tiny bit more intricate to set it up first time, and then one needs to get used to this new way of doing things, but it works very well otherwise (i have been testing and refining it for the past year or so, to be sure, it's not just an "afternoon idea")

* of course calling it "proper" is a bit cheeky, it's the best solution engineering/physics wise, and comes with many advantages, but like most things, it comes with tradeoffs, and is just one way of applying basic physics, i'm sure many other implementations are possible. it definitely can use a lot of work and there's plenty of room for innovation, especially in terms of making the setup "intuitive".

[Phantom Grappler]

When Ah squeezes it, it stays squooze, with simultaneous tension along 360* continuum!

All roads lead to hammock nirvana...
Hang tight!

[nanok]

When Ah squeezes it, it stays squooze, with simultaneous tension along 360* continuum!

All roads lead to hammock nirvana...
Hang tight!

hmm. if you wrap it really tight on the tree, as you describe, and center the "join" of the two sides of the strap on the tree, then it might be pulling somewhat from the "sliding" side of the strap too, that's true (which would make it stay put). however, i guess that will depend a lot on the "dressing" of this whole thing on the tree, and takes a lot more webbing too. on top of it, try the "strap around arm" experiment i propose above, it might prove interesting. having said that, there's at least one manufacturer who sells straps that are designed to wrap around the tree "a number of times", and have both ends loaded equally (is it dd hammocks?), that is a good solution which achieves more or less what i describe and is simple to understand and apply, it just takes a lot of webbing, and is a bit limited in terms of versatility. it also doesn't entirely solve the strangling issue on trees which have smooth bark, but it's one method which at least can be tried very easily, without much modification needed to the straps.

[Phantom Grappler]

Ten4, maybe my choice of the word “choke” and your choice of the word “strangle” might give a bad connotation to what I’m describing. Maybe I should have used the words “real tight”.

By having tree strap tight all way around tree, twice even, then that same amount of weight that would have ordinarily been mostly on the back side of the tree, is distributed more equally around entire tree trunk. So maybe there is less pressure against tree in any one place, due to equal distribution. And since it’s real tight, there is less friction, less movement horizontally and vertically.

In the end, it’s part science and part guesswork. I hope our original poster has lots of new ideas to consider for his hammock suspension.
Thanks for pickin with me.

[nanok]

our OP is most likely quietly considering questions in the range of "what have i done" and "what's wrong with these people". it's okay, baptism of fire so to speak.

the distribution of load depends on the amount of friction between the strap and the bark. to not go academic with it, for most practical purposes (most trees), no load will be transfered across one pass around the tree, let alone two. i'll need to get to work and document this properly (i know this is counter intuitive, and i already thought of some ways to visualize this, but it's not exactly trivial when it comes to friction)

[Phantom Grappler]

Oops, not equal pressure all way around tree.
My guesses don’t pass muster with actual physics.
How about, close enough, even if not perfect balance of forces—close enough?
That is, proof is in the pudding
Or it works for me—that is my straps do not slide horizontally or vertically on the tree, when I use two wraps around tree.

Phantom needs to go back to school, maybe further study is required on my part. Lots of smart people here. All the time I meet people smarter than me...must be luck of the draw...

[TominMN]

our OP is most likely quietly considering questions in the range of "what have i done" and "what's wrong with these people". ...

It's not only the OP thinking that...

[nanok]

on its own, tension in a line gets unintuitive enough when you go into details, when adding friction on a round object it can easily become very confusing to anyone.

your idea is right and i like it (we have the same intent i think): distribute the forces the best possible way. i would just suggest one thing to try with your method (the double wrap): add a marline spike hitch on the strap that goes to the hammock, and put the loop of the other end of the strap behind the toggle, instead of letting it slide freely on the webbing.
then center the connection inline with the suspension, and pull it tight, it should stay in place on the tree.
this way you ensure that both sides are sharing the load, and if the load is not spread 50/50, at least it's very close to that. this way you will achieve the same thing in terms of load distribution as my setup, but it's much easier to try out (as you just need to add a marline spike hitch and a toggle to try it out), and yes it means it will effectively make your webbing twice as wide (as far as the tree is concerned) and twice as strong, as long as the marline spike hitch is far enough from the tree (if the angle between the two sides of the strap going to the tree at the marline spike hitch is 120, you already might as well have done it the usual way, as each side takes full load. if it's more than 120 it's worse than usual way, if it's about 60 degrees, you get about .57 load on each side, from there improvements become marginal, at 30 degrees load is .51 on each side -- you get the picture, 0.5 is obviously the best possible; of course, the narrower the tree, the easier it is to achieve an accute angle, which is fortunate as it is typically the smaller younger trees that need the added protection most). as a rule of thumb, for getting 60degree you'd need the distance between the marline spike and the tree to be roughly half the diameter of the tree (if measuring the shortest distance), or about the diameter of the tree, if measuring from the tangent to the tree (so measuring on the webbing itself).