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Thread: Hang Knot

  1. #1
    Senior Member Graybeard's Avatar
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    Hang Knot

    "Keep It Simple, Stupid" has been a goal when assembling my camping kit for as long as I can remember. Lately, I've been trying to simplify and lighten my suspension system while keeping it reliable, quick and easy to set up with numb fingers on a dark and stormy night, equally easy to take down and stow away, and flexible enough to allow straightforward repairs or replacements in the field if a part becomes damaged or lost. Ideally, I've wanted field repairs or replacements to affect only the damaged or lost part and not require restructuring other parts of the suspension, leaving me with an unfamiliar suspension for the remainder of the trip.
    Progress has been uneven, and the most knotty problem has been the knot itself. My normal weight is a scant 155 lbs. and Lyme has brought me down to 125 lbs. I therefore hang on a single length of 8-strand AmSteel (7/64" diameter.) The knot described here is for tying off an adjustment to hang height. My goals were:
    1. Avoid redundant lengths of hang-line, thereby minimizing weight and/or maximizing potential tree spacing. The knot shown here achieves that to my satisfaction.
    2. Minimize the cost and carry-weight of hardware. The arrangement shown here reduces hardware to two descender rings incorporated into the hammock ends.
    3. Adjust and tie off at the hammock, while facing the hammock. This arrangement achieves that.
    4. Minimize the need to thread the bitter end of the hang rope through hardware or parts of the knot. This arrangement still requires passing the rope through descender rings but not the knot.
    4. Minimize the need to see what you're tying. Perhaps with more practice, but not yet.
    5. Untie and disassemble everything quickly and easily. This goal, at least, is nailed down.
    To tie the knot:
    1. Secure one end of the suspension line to a tree (the subject of a later post.)
    2. Take two turns around the ring in the end of the hammock.

    This is the only time the bitter-end of the line must be handled, and I would sorely like an alternative, but so far no flashes of inspiration. Even at my absurdly light weight, a single turn won't do. Heavier hangers will probably need more than two turns.
    3. Adjust the height by pulling on the tail end, then tie off with a single slippery half-hitch.

    At this point, I go to the other end and do the same, and make whatever adjustments seem desirable for height and/or centering. It will not yet carry hang-weight, however.
    4. One end at a time,
    First, reduce the size of the slippery half-hitch loop to about the size of a dime by pulling on the tail-end. Check that the half-hitch itself is still tight.

    Then, form a bight in the tail-end and insert it through the dime-size half-hitch loop. This bight functions like a toggle, preventing the single slippery half-hitch from coming undone. Pull the dime-size loop tight against the bight. Done.

    At a casual glance, the completed knot looks somewhat like the bow-tie in shoestrings. In structure and function, it is nothing of the sort.
    After a lengthy hang, the knot is very, very tight. Now the slipperiness of AmSteel works to my advantage. A firm pull on the tail end first pulls out the "toggle" bight and then the slippery half-hitch loop and voila, all is undone, even with wet, cold, numb fingers.
    Comment; Using a bight as a toggle was not my first impulse. I first tried a conventional wooden toggle. I found that my nice, smooth, hardwood toggles worked just fine. But I also realized that a toggle-of-opportunity from the forest floor would not slip out so nice and easily after a night's hang, and if I lost one of my nice smooth ones I'd be re-inventing the suspension in the field. The "Be Prepared" from six decades ago suggested that I solve the problem from the prone position on the living-room sofa.
    A final note: Since a significant part of the knot is tied with a bight in the tail end, extraneous parts of the line tend to clutter the "scene." My first reaction to this phenomenon was "This will never do on a dark and stormy night!" Before long, however, as the knot became more familiar, I became more comfortable with it. It ain't no bowline tied behind your back but it ain't no Turk's Head neither. And the bit of focus required when tying it is more than paid back by the simplicity of untying it after hanging on it all night. YMMV.
    I would greatly appreciate comments or suggestions for improving this knot, or using some, specific, other knot.
    bob

  2. #2
    Senior Member sir_n0thing's Avatar
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    While I have no inspiration or suggestions to offer, I will say I like your train of logic and the solution you've arrived at! KISS indeed. I myself would be slightly nervous with the Amsteel-as-a-toggle. I'd probably prefer to tie a small toggle to the SMC ring, which would prevent it from being lost.

    I'll add this to a growing list of suspensions I'd like to try. Someday. So many suspension techniques, not enough hammocks!
    "I know the feeling - It is the real thing - You can't refuse the embrace!" | "Go n-éirí an bóthar leat."

  3. #3
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    Good marlinspike seamanship, Graybeard!

    I agree about the toggle... I'd use a stick. Also, there's nothing wrong with putting additional round turns on the ring.

    Check out an anchor hitch. It's similar, and more secure IMHO.

    - MacEntyre
    - MacEntyre
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
    www.MollyMacGear.com

  4. #4
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    that works, i've used it. it will still slip out at some point (possibly under 400-500 lbs with 7/64" single braid dyneema). i don't use it anymore, i feel like the slipped buntline is quicker/simpler and has at least as much holding power. that knot is simple and quick to tie though. you can use the same concept with any slipped knot. works pretty well with a slipped single sheetbend too, to give a little more holding power.

  5. #5
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    As warbonnet wrote, the knot works good, but heavier people should test thoroughly before going in the field with it.

    Also, be very careful using sheathed rope such as Spyderline with the double slip. When I did this using Spyderline, the Spyderline had a bad habit of kinking which prevented pulling the slipped knot free. If I forgot and gave a hard yank, the kink would jam the knot and make it extremely hard to undo. More than once I was sorely tempted to just cut.

    Using the unsheathed rope like amsteel or Dynaglide, this would be much less of a problem or no problem at all. The slippery nature of both make the slipped knot more jam resistant, but also make the wraps on the ring less effective.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  6. #6
    Senior Member Albert Skye's Avatar
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    I'm curious: Why abandon your SLS and toggle arrangement?

    And why not use an adjustable splice instead of a hitch (surely all the reports of success have reduced your scepticism)?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Graybeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir_n0thing View Post
    ..... KISS indeed. I myself would be slightly nervous with the Amsteel-as-a-toggle. I'd probably prefer to tie a small toggle to the SMC ring, which would prevent it from being lost.
    Ha!!! We think alike!!! My first reaction when the AmSteel-as-toggle idea dawned was "Don't be absurd." But then I thought "Who would ever have known of the Wright Brothers if they had taken that approach?" So I tied it all loose and asked my wife to slowly put downward pressure on the hammock as I watched the knot. First the turns around the ring tightened up and the line began pulling on the slippery half-hitch. As the slippery half-hitch began to slip, it's loop began to tighten on the AmSteel-as-toggle. And that's where it stopped! So I added my own weight; not pushing down on the hammock but actually getting in, and waited for that slow, sinking feeling, and fell asleep. Such disappointment--one less place to show off my exotic hardwood toggles BTW, I drill into the ends of my toggles and super-glue in a short lanyard of thin accessory cord which I then tie or sew to something nearby. But I still want a backup. I'm the kind who wears both belt and suspenders.
    bob

  8. #8
    Senior Member sir_n0thing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graybeard View Post
    But I still want a backup. I'm the kind who wears both belt and suspenders.
    I hear ya! That's the same reason why I do crazy things like bring TWO stoves with me on a trip.. (and all the gram weenies just shuddered).
    "I know the feeling - It is the real thing - You can't refuse the embrace!" | "Go n-éirí an bóthar leat."

  9. #9
    Senior Member Graybeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacEntyre View Post
    .....I agree about the toggle... I'd use a stick......Check out an anchor hitch. It's similar, and more secure IMHO.
    - MacEntyre
    I didn't even get to "a stick" if by that you mean from the forest floor. Even a dowel in as-from-the-store condition is too rough to easily remove. A couple hours in the hammock pulls the half-hitch loop so tight that a toggle has to be hard and very smooth. The AmSteel-as-toggle requires a pretty sharp jerk to pull out. Is there reason to not use a loop of AmSteel? I've spent a lot more time pushin' pencils than pullin' ropes so there's a lot I don't know!
    My reservation about the anchor hitch, and a lot of other knots that might seem like good candidates, is that they aren't convenient to tie except at the very end of the rope.
    bob

  10. #10
    Senior Member Graybeard's Avatar
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    warbonnetguy & TeeDee;

    Thanks! It's good to get the reactions of guys who have done similar or identical things, and particularly good to hear of situations where it won't work without serious difficulty.
    bob

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