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  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    old dirt
    Posts
    211
    hey uninjured.

    i am deeply disappointed and a bit hurt too. :P

    neh. joking aside, first of all i want to say: thumbs up for coming back here to summarize what you are going with and how your setup looks now. on one hand everybody who contributed can see where the discussion led, on the other hand it will make the thread a lot more useful in the future to people searching for information. i wish more of us would be doing this.

    i'd replace that figure 8 stopper with an e-star stopper, or maybe just something spliced if you're so inclined (dyneema is known to laugh at the "classic" stoppers and just slide them to nothingness; no big deal, i guess unlikely to happen at tarp loads)

    regarding "to ground", i think your conclusion is smart: play with what you have for now a lot, and see once you get used to it enough what ideas it gives you for alternate methods. covering every possible contingency by just thinking, from the armchair, tends to get unproductive after a while (i should know, i'm often guilty of improving my own ideas/solutions before trying them twice)

    looks like you got a nice setup to play with for a while, enjoy and keep us posted

  2. #22

    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    NY
    Hammock
    SLD TL 1.6 / Chameleon 1.6
    Tarp
    Superfly
    Insulation
    HG Econ 20
    Suspension
    Becket
    Posts
    74
    I was able to test this setup last weekend. The snakeskin is amazing, I'm really happy with it and wish I got one sooner. I didn't even have to deploy my tarp for the 4 days I was out there! Unfortunately before my trip, my order from DWG didn't make it my tarp RL was 25' and both tree setups I found wouldn't accommodate this length so I had to attach more length using a bowlines. I ordered 50' of lashit from DWG and I think I will prob splice a loop to each end and use the full length (better to have extra than to not).

    I used soft shackles + prussiks to attach the tarp to the ridgeline and pack it all together. Also the ridgeline is fed through the snake skin as well. My thoughts on this are:

    1. Doing my toggle at the fixed end + truckers hitch on the other, the weight of the tarp is non-negligible. It's much more convenient deploying the RL without the tarp's weight attached.
    2. Since you ultimately center the tarp on the RL (say up to 30-40' of length), as the distance between trees changes with each deployment the tarp is rarely centered and you will end up having to slide it up or down. Sliding lashit on lashit prussiks generate a lot of heat so sliding both down 6' actually was more trouble than I thought it would be.
    3. One of the 2 soft shackles I made wouldn't open up so I could detach it. I don't know what happened but basically I couldn't get it to loosen around the knot so I had to make another.

    In light of the above, I think I may try to not use soft shackles and leave the tarp attached but instead go with my original thought on just packing a 40-50' tarp RL and deploying it then prussik + toggle attach my tarp. At least this way I reckon deploying the tarp RL would be super quick and minimize the need to slide these prussiks over great distances. I guess the only consideration will be how to ensure the tarp doesn't disappear into the snake skin.

    I found this on reddit today and it looks as though that person is doing the same?

    2021-05-31-141241_1278x958_scrot.jpg

  3. #23
    FLTurtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Orlando FL
    Hammock
    DW Chameleon, WB Eldorado
    Tarp
    Thunder/Superfly
    Insulation
    HG 20/40
    Suspension
    DW Beetle Buckles
    Posts
    632
    Man, they got that tarp rigged really high up there. Not knowing what the dimensions are, but I doubt it would provide any side protection. Still, the weather looks nice enough that they probably won't need the tarp. Maybe it's more for shade?

    Your issues with tarp centering is why I moved to split ridgelines on my second tarp. If you're only doing an overnight, or several nights at the same site...no big deal. But if you do a 5 nighter, adjusting it gets old fast. Yeah, retying the prussiks helps but I find using the split ridgelines with Dutch Stingerz is pretty simple and easy enough to adjust quickly.

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    old dirt
    Posts
    211
    Quote Originally Posted by uninjured View Post
    I was able to test this setup last weekend.
    nice to have your followup thoughts.

    The snakeskin is amazing, I'm really happy with it and wish I got one sooner. I didn't even have to deploy my tarp for the 4 days I was out there! Unfortunately before my trip, my order from DWG didn't make it my tarp RL was 25' and both tree setups I found wouldn't accommodate this length so I had to attach more length using a bowlines. I ordered 50' of lashit from DWG and I think I will prob splice a loop to each end and use the full length (better to have extra than to not).

    I used soft shackles + prussiks to attach the tarp to the ridgeline and pack it all together. Also the ridgeline is fed through the snake skin as well. My thoughts on this are:

    1. Doing my toggle at the fixed end + truckers hitch on the other, the weight of the tarp is non-negligible. It's much more convenient deploying the RL without the tarp's weight attached.
    indeed, it will be noticeable, particularly when you go for a "horizontal" ridgeline (so attached below the hammock suspension), instead of the much more efficient and tree friendly 30 degree ridgeline (basically ridgeline parallel to the hammock suspension, until it reaches near the tarp), which is what i recommend

    2. Since you ultimately center the tarp on the RL (say up to 30-40' of length), as the distance between trees changes with each deployment the tarp is rarely centered and you will end up having to slide it up or down. Sliding lashit on lashit prussiks generate a lot of heat so sliding both down 6' actually was more trouble than I thought it would be.
    that's one reason i keep recommending to not use dyneema for friction hitches, and to not use prusiks, and especially not the same line diameter for the hitch and the host line. (i also am not convinced dyneema is a good idea for the ridgeline of a tarp, but that's a different can of warms, at least make the friction hitch out of something else):

    - pick some nylon line you like, ideally something very malleable (that is very happy to bend around a small radius), and ideally smaller diameter than the host line (but malleable is more important. and if anyone knows the actual english word for that, i'd be greatfull btw). a loose braid usually helps a lot with that. another nice property is if it's a bit "springy" rather than "sticky", i don't know if it makes sense, but dyneema tends to be "sticky" even if very slipery: once you tighten the hitch, it will be happy to stay reasonably snug, and not so eager to spring open when you try to loosen it, i think this is one of the main reasons for your concern (it feels like they stick together while you're sliding them)

    note: i'm just now experimenting with good quality poly propylene hollow (loose) braided line and so far i'm pleasantly surprised, i'll write a few words about it when i have more data/testing done, but might be worth considering to try some. i even played with some i got from the local hardware store, and while it's nowhere near as nice as the good quality one, even that seems to make a good "guyline hitch cord", and should be readily available everywhere, as ppm is (?) the cheapest synthetic fiber now available (and, while weaker than nylon and polyester, it's lighter than even dyneema, which is the main reason i gave it a chance). but i digress

    - experiment with some decent hitches. i know i'll annoy some prusik devotees, but look, you know a prusik is not the right tool for the job when you have to make 5 wraps to make it hold. that is, a coil of 10 in total. and then add a pull cord to make it let go. there are just better friction hitches out there.

    the two i would recommend would be the blake hitch and the VT.

    the VT is particularly nice in how readily it loosens and slides on a ridgeline, and because of how grippy it is, i've had luck with 2.5mm line as the hitch, on 2mm line as the ridge line -- yes, the wrong way around (but polyester/nylon, no dyneema). the nice thing about having such thick line as the hitch, if you can make it grip well, is that when you unload it and want to slide it, it tends to come loose more readily. it also feels nicer to handle.

    the blake on the other hand is more compact, and requires less line overall, but we're talking centimeters/inches here. try them both and see how you like each, they both will slide much nicer than a prusik, and will even allow you to slide them when loaded if you grab the knot in the rigth place, which makes fine adjustments a pleasure, and a prusik will never do; they will hold without the need for 22wraps, even if done in dyneema of same size. another possibility, if you like the prusik general shape and mode of operation, maybe the farrimond hitch: it's basically a prusik but loaded on only one leg, and made to be quick release, the asymmetry makes it work better for most purposes, and in my experience it does work much better than a normal prusik, i just happen to prefer the others.

    here's the VT i talk about (valdotain tressee/braided valdotain), as ridgeline hitch, and it's in fact the thicker line i was talking about above, just to give an idea what it looks like


    3. One of the 2 soft shackles I made wouldn't open up so I could detach it. I don't know what happened but basically I couldn't get it to loosen around the knot so I had to make another.
    that's quite fascinating, but to be honest, might not be worth troubleshooting: if you got the method down to make them so they work for you, one bad one in the first "batch" can just be down to beginning mishap. i guess it's part of learning.

    In light of the above, I think I may try to not use soft shackles and leave the tarp attached but instead go with my original thought on just packing a 40-50' tarp RL and deploying it then prussik + toggle attach my tarp. At least this way I reckon deploying the tarp RL would be super quick and minimize the need to slide these prussiks over great distances. I guess the only consideration will be how to ensure the tarp doesn't disappear into the snake skin.
    (...)
    hmm. so you're thinking; tie the prusik every time you deploy, and instead of the soft shackle use a toggle? (do i have it right?)

    i still think playing with some other friction hitches might be the best next step, and then decide if you want to change something else. i think your current layout is not fundamentally wrong, it's actually a pretty good and "slick" way of doing things.

    what might also help could be to try the softshackle i described earlier, it's much easier to work with (i'd say even easier than a toggle, or thereabouts), classic soft shackles are annoying for use with tarps in my experience, which is exactly why i "designed" this different one: you need something quick release there, and strength is not the utmost importance at the tarp tieout (that is: the tarp will fail before the shackle anyway)
    Last edited by nanok; 06-02-2021 at 13:05.

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