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  1. #11
    Rhody Seth's Avatar
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    My opinion: I think you can safety get rid of the bear cannister. Those three established campsites on the Pemi Loop I mentioned all have bear boxes you can use and any bear issues tend to be at those sites (hence the boxes). Hanging food bag from a tree otherwise has always served me well in the Whites.

    Your spikes will likely get a free ride. Keep an eye on https://www.mountain-forecast.com/ and if the weather looks decent I would leave 'em behind.

    As always though, hike your own hike and do what feels best!

  2. #12
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    Food for thought: water carries are much easier CCW. You're on a water source for the first 8 miles of your hike. Carry a liter up to near the top of Bondcliff, reup at Guyot 3 miles later, again at Galehead in 4.5 miles (while getting to descend that awful climb from the hut), another source is 2 miles later, and 2 more over the next mile . Your worst water carry would occur on your last day while your pack is the lightest.

  3. #13
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    You have 9 pounds in just clothes. That’s some people’s baseweights. Yeah there’s a lot of stuff in your LighterPack you need to trim out. I saw a rain jacket, a fleece and a jacket for instance. And a stuff sack for clothes. Just throw the clothes in your sleeping bag at the bottom. You don’t need them till you get to camp anyways. fjallraven makes good stuff, but it’s rugged and heavy.

    The Pemi loop is fun though. Have a great time!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #14

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    I am going to sit down with a weighing scale tomorrow and go through this again. Had to clear my mind and then reconnect... will keep it posted here.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrJohnBecker View Post
    Food for thought: water carries are much easier CCW. You're on a water source for the first 8 miles of your hike. Carry a liter up to near the top of Bondcliff, reup at Guyot 3 miles later, again at Galehead in 4.5 miles (while getting to descend that awful climb from the hut), another source is 2 miles later, and 2 more over the next mile . Your worst water carry would occur on your last day while your pack is the lightest.

    Hello... we were planning on doing it clockwise... wanted to keep the last 4 miles easy with a water source. But that's a great suggestion... given how heavy my pack weight is... I sweat a lot and tend to hydrate a lot.... hence the 3 L at least till I reach Liberty Springs... from there I need to keep 3L again till Garfield Pond and then go from there...

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by droidrunner View Post
    You have 9 pounds in just clothes. That’s some people’s baseweights. Yeah there’s a lot of stuff in your LighterPack you need to trim out. I saw a rain jacket, a fleece and a jacket for instance. And a stuff sack for clothes. Just throw the clothes in your sleeping bag at the bottom. You don’t need them till you get to camp anyways. fjallraven makes good stuff, but it’s rugged and heavy.

    The Pemi loop is fun though. Have a great time!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I have never been in cold that north... hence was being safe... I could ditch the stuff sack and keep the clothes below the sleeping bag... great suggestion...
    Also genuinely curious to know how I could get to a base weight of that low in the fall in that cold of a weather; if there is a post that I can peruse or a direction you can point me to, I would appreciate it. I have had Fjallraven stuff for a while now and these things are already expensive; I was planning to just reuse it hike after hike.
    Last edited by tintin_snowy; 09-19-2021 at 08:48.

  7. #17

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    Wow... as @cmoulder had indicated... I bought out my weighing scale and voila... the real weights are so much different than manufacturer suggested ones.
    I now have a handle on what's going on... and I plan to eliminate anything that I don't need. The updated list is over here

    Got rid of hangtime hook, gear bag... and yes lightening the load is tricky in winter. If the weather holds, I will leave the microspikes behind.

  8. #18
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    Hi tintin_snowy,

    Please take a look at my 0deg list that I linked a few posts above. There are still some things in your list that you don't need and other things that you really (really!) need that aren't listed.

    For a 4-night trip, you can eliminate a bunch of the back-up stuff. For instance you have back-up socks and sleeping socks. Get rid of the sleeping socks and use your back-up socks to sleep in. Back-up underwear? Don't need it.

    What I don't see... a puffy, specifically a down parka that can fit over all other layers. May not need it on this trip but it should be standard winter gear. Also not listed here is any sort of glove. A very light setup that works for me down to 0°F is light polyester liners, 200wt Polartec gloves and Mountain Laurel Designs rain mitts. VERY flexible system. Another go-to is a Turtle Fur fleece buff. Get rid of the sleep trousers and sleep fleece. Sleep in your day britches and fleece. Get rid of the Crestone Hood. Sleep in your parka and beanie (and buff, if you get one).

    If rain is expected, a dry set of light longjohns (top+bottom) is the way to go.

    Ten stakes is a lot. Sure you need 'em?

    Something to consider later... 3300g (7.25lb) is super mondo heavy for a non-technical backpack these days, where 3 lb is garden variety, 2lb isn't too rare and there are quite a few sub-2lb. Zpacks Arc Haul (62L) is my winter pack and it weighs in at about 700g with accessory hip and shoulder pockets.

    There's a lot to think about now, but in short order for this trip I think you need the glove system and a puffy. And to get rid of the back-up items. Also, if you plan to do a lot of winter camping, one of the best things you'll ever buy are down pants. I use Mont-bell Down TEC pants. If you sleep in down parka and pants you can use a top quilt that is rated 20deg warmer and save some more weight there. I've been doing this for more than 30 years now it works fine.

    Believe it or not, one of the big issues in winter, or cold weather in general, is overheating. Remember "ventilation before perspiration" and do not hesitate to adjust layers — removing if necessary — and using zips and hoods etc. If you're sweating, you're doing something wrong! At the end of the day, if anything besides your lower back is wet, you need to re-evaluate what you did during the day to overheat. If you pay close attention to this you'll be way ahead of the average winter backpacker.

    As for the wet lower back, I've always found that with synthetic clothing it is dry or nearly so 99% of the time after doing camp chores and dinner.

    If you get cold, do not hesitate to use all your layers. Wrap your quilt around you if you're not yet ready to go to sleep.

    Edit: Sorry, I found that you have a puffy. but it says 'jacket' and I'd still recommend something with a built-in hood and not a separate item.

    Edit 2: And now I see it has a hood, so it's a parka and not a jacket. So you really don't need that separate hood!
    Last edited by cmoulder; 09-21-2021 at 06:10.
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ) Instagram (me!)

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  9. #19

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    Hey @cmoulder,

    You show the way and I follow. Since I read your post last night, I made adjustments so you have actually not misread anything

    1. Got rid of sleeping socks
    2. I have a thin fleece lined glove liner; am going to use it (good call I had not included it in the list)
    3. Turtle Fur Fleece buff on the way
    4. I got the Mountain Laurel Design Mitts
    5. I got a new puffy... my old arcteryx (going strong after 15 years) is awesome but heavy (375 grams) and this puffy is without the hood (200 gm).
    6. I am only taking 8 stakes (took 2 out) and will setup the tarp and re-check... my tarp has doors so hence the extra stakes for the door.
    7. Leaving the Crestone hood behind
    8. Believe it or not I actually had a call with Zpacks about the exact same pack about a week ago. And they surveyed what I was carrying and said that they would not recommend it for this trip as the max loadout that the pack would be comfy with is 30 lbs. FWIW I have made my share of mistakes but I never had anyone to guide me and I am incredibly lucky right now to have someone hold my hand and walk me through the maze of gear selection. It's too late for this... I will stick with the Kajka and the thing is with the adjustments, I am down to about 37 lbs. I am going to consume food going clockwise and that will wean another 600 grams off (say about a pound) on day 1 before I hit the hardest section - Garfield. Thus I am looking at Garfield at about 35 lbs... I will go with that.
    9. About "ventilation before sweating" awesome call and that was on my mind too. I plan to start hiking a bit cool and then as I warm up, rely on ventilation to keep the sweat off. If I feel cold, I put on more layers as necessary whilst keeping the principle in mind.

    Great advice and keep em coming ... I really really wanna do this right.

    Best,
    - tintin

    Last edited by tintin_snowy; 09-21-2021 at 10:00.

  10. #20
    cmoulder's Avatar
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    The pack is something of a Catch-22... at over 7lbs it is one of the things seriously contributing to the load, so switching to a 2lb pack would cut over 5lb from the total, which in Gramlandia is sometimes half your total base weight.

    Maybe something middle ground like a ULA Ohm 2.0. People really seem to like those a lot, or one of the lighter Ospreys.

    As you lighten the load you also need less pack, which is an automatic side benefit. When I first started down this UL road about 10 years ago I was using a REI Flash 62, and as I acquired UL gear, techniques and skills it quickly got to the point that I was carrying so much less volume and weight that a smaller and lighter pack was definitely in order.
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ) Instagram (me!)

    “To equip a pedestrian with shelter, bedding, utensils, food, and other necessities, in a pack so light and small that he can carry it without overstrain, is really a fine art.” ~ Horace Kephart, 1906

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