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  1. #1
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    WBBB XLC Knee Ridge?

    Anyone have any issues getting a "knee ridge" with their XLC single layer? When I lay in the hammock I get a ridge that runs all the way from the foot end whipping down to the back of whichever knee is most medial in the hammock and it stops right around my butt. My issue is not really a comfort thing, I get a great comfortable lay in it but it creates a perfect little channel for cold air to get between my underquilt and hammock. All of me is warm except that one knee/calf/thigh area, I can put a hand to it and feel the cold air while I'm laying there.

    I've tried bringing the foot-end up well beyond the routinely recommended 16" to exaggerate the effect and I get no change, same with how far up towards the head end I place my body. Head left and feet right and vice versa, no change. Butt scooched left, butt scooched right, no diff.

    I've taken a picture where I sorta exaggerated the issue by pulling my heels back just a tad for visibility, but it shows what I'm talking about and where more clearly. Also it may look like I'm pretty close to the foot-end in the picture but I assure you it is just the camera playing tricks.

    Dunno if it makes much of a difference but I'm 5'9" and 200lbs

    Knee Ridge.jpeg
    Last edited by LordreginaldC; 01-30-2023 at 18:41.

  2. #2
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    LordreginalC, the photo I'd like to see is what your underquilt looks like, with you in the hammock, at that end. If the underquilt is sealing properly, channel or not, there wouldn't be cold air. Much older posts talked about cinching the end of the hammock tight. The current trend, at least for me, is to keep that end cinch loose so the UQ more easily conforms to the foot and shoulder pushing out when on a diagonal. Words are difficult here because some hammocks - like those from WarBonnet, have three adjustments: main suspension, secondary suspension, and end cinching. It's the end cinching I keep loose, not the primary or secondary suspension. There are also way the add a secondary suspension, like attaching a shock cord near the end of the quilt, bringing it over the hammock ridgeline, and attach to the other side - giving and additional lift at the end.

    Also, because I most often setup alone, I use an under quilt protector (UQP) because it adds additional wind blockage and my UQ setup doesn't have to be spot on. If I only used one hammock and one UQ I could probably set them up just right. But for learning purposes, I have a variety of each. So each outing is a new setup.

    Lastly, by changing the sag or using a camp pillow under your knee, you might be able to minimize that ridge line. This is the point were small changes can eliminate an annoyance - though it can be difficult to experiment outside in winter temperatures.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Shugemery has several good videos on Youtube about calf ridge and how you can minimize.

  4. #4
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    Yes! Watch Shug’s videos to reduce or eliminate Calf Ridge Pressure CRP
    Longer hammocks tend to have less CRP than shorter hammocks. Your next hammock might be 12 feet long!
    Also watch Shug’s videos How to hang under quilt to reduce or eliminate Cold Butt Syndrome CBS

    One technique I learned from Shug’s videos.
    I’m paraphrasing here:
    Hang your hammock
    Hang your under quilt under your hammock.
    Pull your under quilt (still attached to hammock ends) out from under and completely in front of hammock. Adjust under quilt primary and secondary suspensions, so that you can see bottom of hammock hanging about six inches below your under quilt along it’s entire length.
    During this adjustment, your hammock and under quilt will be both hanging parallel to one another. And your under quilt will be in front, on same side you’re standing.

    When done adjusting so that bottom of under quilt is six inches above bottom of hammock, along entire length—then you can push under quilt back under hammock.
    The under quilt will actually lift bottom of empty hammock a few inches.
    Also do not over tighten the short end cords on short ends of under quilt. This will make under quilt have a horseshoe shape or a hairpin shape and make air gaps on ends of hammock and under quilt

    Watch Shug’s videos—more fun and more understandable when you can see it working!

  5. #5
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    Thanks guys!

    I almost mentioned in my post how I've seen shugs video on calfridge... and all his other videos. One time I was watching one when my wife walked in and she goes, "Are you watching that weird hammock guy again?"

    Phantom, I didn't realize a properly setup quilt wouldn't have any issue with ridge gaps and the such. So it might still just be an issue with my UQ setup and not the hammock after all, darn. I've had a long, rough journey getting my MW3 to play nice with my XLC, and I feel like I've finally got it in a pretty nice way other than this one cold spot. Currently I have it modded to use a primary suspension with 18' (I've experimented down to 14') of 1/8" shock cord running along the side channels like other popular quilt makers do. The stock suspension now acts as a secondary only to prevent the quilt from accordion-ing and position closer to the head end what with it being an XLC. JRB recommends against the use of a primary suspension but its the only way I've been able to get the quilt to actually lift up high enough against the backs of my legs. My problem has ALWAYS not being able to get the footend to lift up enough without a carabiner prusiked to the ridgeline or something along those lines. I just recently tried triangle thingies and they don't provide any upward lift for me at all. Even now I think the side opposite of my legs (right side in the photo) is always a little on the loose and drapey side, but there's so much quilt there that doesn't even come in to contact with my body anyways. Maybe this is actually my cold right knee problem?

    As to the end channel cinches, I totally agree having them open as much as you can has helped me tremendously in the past, I avoid over-tightening those by taking out a little slack at a time while still laying in the hammock, laying back and waiting to feel the temperature difference, rinse and repeat. I also swapped out the non-stretch shoe lace cord that came with the quilt with some very lightweight (same that HG uses for their end channels) shock cord to give me a little room for error.

    "
    When done adjusting so that bottom of under quilt is six inches above bottom of hammock, along entire length—then you can push under quilt back under hammock."
    I think I'm going to start over at this step, I can't seem to remember if I have actually been getting the ends of the quilt up that high.



    I've got some thinking to do. I really appreciate the input, I'll try to get some pictures of the outside while I'm laying in it in a couple days when I have the chance.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Hang Williams's Avatar
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    Let me caveat this with: I'm not an expert and never could get this reliably figured out to give myself confidence in going into the backcountry with my HG Incubator so I just got a Wooki XL and use that

    Anyways.... the pictures look similar, so let me ask a couple questions:

    1) have you had a second person check the seal at the ends and it looks good?
    2) if you feel between the hammock and UQ in the area of the calf ridge, are they pulled away from each other?

    The conclusion I eventually drew from my experimentation was that the secondary suspension was pulling the UQ too tightly and creating an air gap between hammock and UQ where the calf ridge is located even though the ends were sealed flush. No matter how good the ends are sealed, they aren't airtight and air would seep into that gap (or the air in that gap would simply be cooled by the ambient temperature through the top of the hammock) and since that gap went under my legs, my top quilt didn't cover it so it was impossible to warm up that air gap no matter what I did. I ended up adding shock cord to my secondary suspension on the foot end which lengthened it and loosened the horizontal fit. I shortened the primary suspension to give the 6" of vertical lift across the hammock. In other words, I did the exact opposite of what the instructions with the quilt told me to do. Then and only then did I feel like I eliminated that gap..... but it seems finicky to me and I just use the wooki or the SG insulated hammock when I go backpacking.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordreginaldC View Post
    Thanks guys!

    I almost mentioned in my post how I've seen shugs video on calfridge... and all his other videos. One time I was watching one when my wife walked in and she goes, "Are you watching that weird hammock guy again?"

    Phantom, I didn't realize a properly setup quilt wouldn't have any issue with ridge gaps and the such. So it might still just be an issue with my UQ setup and not the hammock after all, darn. I've had a long, rough journey getting my MW3 to play nice with my XLC, and I feel like I've finally got it in a pretty nice way other than this one cold spot. Currently I have it modded to use a primary suspension with 18' (I've experimented down to 14') of 1/8" shock cord running along the side channels like other popular quilt makers do. The stock suspension now acts as a secondary only to prevent the quilt from accordion-ing and position closer to the head end what with it being an XLC. JRB recommends against the use of a primary suspension but its the only way I've been able to get the quilt to actually lift up high enough against the backs of my legs. My problem has ALWAYS not being able to get the footend to lift up enough without a carabiner prusiked to the ridgeline or something along those lines. I just recently tried triangle thingies and they don't provide any upward lift for me at all. Even now I think the side opposite of my legs (right side in the photo) is always a little on the loose and drapey side, but there's so much quilt there that doesn't even come in to contact with my body anyways. Maybe this is actually my cold right knee problem?

    As to the end channel cinches, I totally agree having them open as much as you can has helped me tremendously in the past, I avoid over-tightening those by taking out a little slack at a time while still laying in the hammock, laying back and waiting to feel the temperature difference, rinse and repeat. I also swapped out the non-stretch shoe lace cord that came with the quilt with some very lightweight (same that HG uses for their end channels) shock cord to give me a little room for error.

    "
    When done adjusting so that bottom of under quilt is six inches above bottom of hammock, along entire length—then you can push under quilt back under hammock."
    I think I'm going to start over at this step, I can't seem to remember if I have actually been getting the ends of the quilt up that high.



    I've got some thinking to do. I really appreciate the input, I'll try to get some pictures of the outside while I'm laying in it in a couple days when I have the chance.
    I've never seen a Mount Washington in person. I use a Greylock 3 most of the time on my XLC. As I understand, the MW has corner suspension. JRB has a video showing the installation of their full length quilt with the bottom slit on a Hennessy. I would think the MW would be similar just without the opening. He talks about how to adjust the corner tensions by wrapping multiple loops. Shug also has an underquilt video in which he installs a Hudson River topquilt on a Blackbird. Instead of using the JRB suspension, he uses 4 pieces of shock cord that gives greater adjustment. You might really play with the hammock suspension/strap angles. I've found the tighter my ridgeline is, the more calf ridge that I tend to sense. On my XLC, I have found that I get the most comfort when I hang the hammock foot end about 18" higher than the head end and I can slightly bend the ridgeline upward when I lie down in the hammock. Good luck.

  8. #8
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    Warbonnets need the proper set-up. Read carefully the instructions from their website....https://www.warbonnetoutdoors.com/wp...mock-setup.pdf
    It could help.
    Could be the UQ set-up as well.
    Oh, the trails and tribulations of hammocks dare to cease.....
    The Weird Hammock Guy Shug...haaaaa
    ShugArt Hammock Paintings....https://www.etsy.com/shop/ShugArtStu...platform-mcnav

    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Secure in Sector Seven

  9. #9

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    You pic looks funny to me. Like your feet are in the wrong side. Unless I missed something in the text.

    Feet right, head left. Foot end of the hammock should be a good foot or more higher than the head. This pushes you forward in th hammock. I can feel the ridge when the foot is too low.

    Though the whole pic looks funny to me. What is the orange part on the end? My XLC does not look like that.
    Last edited by Sean McC; 02-02-2023 at 01:29.

  10. #10
    New Member st4hangin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean McC View Post
    You pic looks funny to me. Like your feet are in the wrong side. Unless I missed something in the text.

    Feet right, head left. Foot end of the hammock should be a good foot or more higher than the head. This pushes you forward in th hammock. I can feel the ridge when the foot is too low.

    Though the whole pic looks funny to me. What is the orange part on the end? My XLC does not look like that.
    I agree 100% with this post and Shug's, i have always followed wb's setup/lay instructions and have never began to have any sign of calf ridge, only extreme comfort!

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