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  1. #11
    rhjanes's Avatar
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    Also remember that there are no actual standards and testing done on vendor ratings. And as noted, everyone is different. A buddy of yours could borrow your set up, sleep at 45 and proclaim "Toasty, I awoke and had pulled the TQ down some....". Also there has been the discussion about the temps. Say a TQ is stated to be 20 degrees. Does that mean the vendor believes most people will be toasty warm at 20 degrees? Or simply survive the night?

    Just saying as others are saying, it all depends on the gear and how you feel when using it.
    Last edited by rhjanes; 06-07-2023 at 09:46.
    Call me Junior

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  2. #12

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    I subscribe to the 10 rule as well. And I can sleep in my puffy (and have), but I really do not enjoy it. I am too restless and it gets bound up on me.

    I do find that a base layer makes a huge difference and if it fits snug (like it should) it does not get bound up on me when I flip about. It's primary add is moving the evaporation of my perspiration from the surface of my skin to the surface of the base layer. This is huge as I have too many times been cold and sweaty at the same time. This is a bad loop to get in to and the base layer fixes it.

    Fluff your down when you put out your quilts to get it nice and lofty. You also need to keep drafts from pulling warm air out with each gust. If it is breezy and cold, I generally pull my tarp down pretty tight. I don't have one, but I am sure an UQP is a better solution for this. Like there is not reason it would not.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhjanes View Post
    Also remember that there are no actual standards and testing done on vendor ratings.
    I suspect (and it is just that) that vendors do something like the following:

    Sleeping bags are tested to EN13537 (now ISO23537).
    A bag using X grammes of down of fill rating Y rated to temperature Z (limit or comfort) has D centimetres of loft.
    If we make our top quilts or underquilts with that amount of loft then they should be good at approximately temperature Z.

    I'm not sure I could tell the difference in usage between two bags/quilts that have ratings that differ by say 2C. There's too many other variables to take into account.

    I can get away with a lighter TQ mostly because the UQ wraps around the sides and the TQ only has to lie on top of me rather than the top and sides so has effectively more loft (hope I have described that suitably)
    Better weight than wisdom, a traveller cannot carry - Viking proverb

  4. #14
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elionoxa View Post
    I have a 40 degree UQ & TQ but I am only comfortable with them down to 55 degrees if i set it up right.Since my hammock is a Chameleon, and the zip on chameleon looks very easy to work with, i want to get the 20 degree and was wondering how low can i get with a 20 degree UQ with UQ protector, and a 40 degree top quilt?thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by FLTurtle View Post
    Depends on what was getting cold. When you got cold with your 40/40 setup, was it only on your back?With my 40/40 Phoenix/Burrow, I've gotten cold as it approached the 40s. My feet and lower legs got cold with the 3/4 length UQ and I didn't supplement my footbox. But my upper body was fine.
    Yep, depends on what was cold, or if everything was cold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elionoxa View Post
    Feet, lower legs and occasinally my a$$. All under. Top was ok i think
    Well, there Ya go, the problem is the UQ or most likely the UQ fit/adjustment. Except for one thing: it was only 55F. Presumably you have not been comfy at some temp not far below 55F, either only on the bottom or top and bottom. So, you are at least 15F off from the ratings. You have joined a huge club: people who have been cold well ABOVE the lower rating of their hammock quilts, especially in gathered end/diagonal lay hammocks, but especially with an UQ. That club, based on threads at this site over the years, is large.Not myself, mind you, I've been lucky. Since I had a miserable 22F shivering night in my first ever night in both a hammock and the HH Super Shelter with sleeping bag, I don't think i have ever been cold again. (perhaps a bit cold a few nights as I was learning and experimenting during that 1st winter after that 1st cold experience in 2006). I have been warm, to the rated temp or below, using the much maligned HH Super Shelter(still one of the best IMO), Speer Pea Pods(worked great, among the best!), full length JRB UQs even on gathered end(GE) WB hammocks(not quite rated temp, only 18F with a zero rated MW UQ, but the wind chill was huge and tarp coverage poor and I was plenty warm). Same applies to partial length JRB and WB synthetic Yeti UQs, either on bridge or GE hammocks. Now add the Superior Gear insulated hammocks and comforter/TQ to that list.I have never needed to do anything else to be adequately warm down to the rated temp of either my jRB or WB Yeti UQs and and JRB TQs. (and now the Superior Gear products) Except for one thing: I really did MUCH better at staying actually warm at the ratings of these TQs after I added a JRB hood to make up for the loss of my mummy bag hoods. Keeping the head at least as well insulated as the rest is BIG. You always see Shug with a thick hood for his very cold hangs. In fact, i have very often used all of my various insulation products well below their ratings by adding a few tricks. I.E., layered clothing(especially on top, or thick, poorly compressible fleece on the bottom), and particularly space blankets or other vapor barriers USED CORRECTLY. Or, sometimes a small section of CCF pad on a cold spot. There are so many ways to boost warmth, top or bottom!But, back to that lack of warmth down below. Assuming dry, quality quilts, which are at least thick enough for their traditional ratings( say, 2.5" top layer for a 20F TQ), it is all about drafts and gaps. (or, with an UQ, possibly compression of the loft from a too tight adjustment, but not likely with the differential cuts of most UQs seen around here, from JRB, WB, HG, etc) Nope, 90% of the time it is a gap and/or draft. And, in my experience, that can be really tricky to fix most especially with full length UQs on GE hammocks. I have a usually rectangular UQ, usually suspended by some form of elastic shock cord, covering from about head or shoulders to the feet, snugged up against maybe the back or butt, as I lay DIAGONALLY across that UQ. With my feet and/or head pushing on the ends. And then if I manage to get all of that adjusted just right so that all parts down below are insulated with no gaps, it might all go awry if I move. Doable, but tricky. Once all of that is solved, wind chill(as the wind shifts during the night) becomes a threat, particularly with less than huge tarps with out doors. (which is why I love UQPs(UQ protectors)Having said all of that, I have managed at least once to be toasty as already described: using a full length JRB 0F MW UQ under a WB BB GE hammock, at 18F with poor tarp coverage and huge winds. But, I remember I had to fiddle quite a lot to get everything adjusted just right. You have to make sure that when you are laying in the hammock, every part of your body is is contact with uncompressed quilt, and that there are no drafts. If there are any gaps or drafts, any 40F quilt can easily be turned into a 55F quilt. You might need someone- who understands all of this- to observe you in the hammock and help make adjustments. If that is not possible, as long as my UQ has a differential cut, I just make sure that my UQ lifts the empty hammock at least a few inches or more. ( You can adjust for a lot of lift, but just make sure that you still have enough stretch in your UQ suspension to account for the hammock sag when you get in, dont want to tear anything). It should be snug against your back and butt, and hopefully everything else. But if you change position, it might still be a problem.Try to notice this: when you lay on a diagonal in your GE hammock, say with feet left, does the UQ gap away a few inches from your left leg? This has been a common occurrence for me. (I have sometimes solved it by adding some shock cord from lt to rt over the RL) I started looking for this years ago when WB guy was stating some of the reasons he liked a short, partial length UQ( i.e. WB Yeti): because he often had to add a leg pad anyway because of that happening. Try to figure out if that is happening in your case. It is just my opinion based on my experience, but I have found that there is less to go wrong when using either my Full length or partial length UQ on my JRB and WB bridge hammocks. As long as the UQ is not too long, the UQs just snug up to every part of the hammocks and stay that way, no matter how I toss and turn. Also, I seem to have an easier time with partial length UQs on my GE hammocks, less gaps and drafts(pad under my legs if cold enough). In all cases, if there is any adjustment available, I adjust for the UQ to lift the empty hammock, but still leaving some stretch in the UQ suspension. Once you have done that, start looking for any gaps or drafts below body parts with the hammock occupied. Consider adding some shock cord to snug up the UQ in those areas. Or, even toss some light weigh puffy clothing down into the gap or areas where the UQ is falling away. Or, just put a piece of thin, cheap closed cell foam pad between your legs or other cold spot and the gap. Good luck! Hang in there, you will get it working!
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 06-14-2023 at 10:57.

  5. #15
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elionoxa View Post
    I have a 40 degree UQ & TQ but I am only comfortable with them down to 55 degrees if i set it up right. Since my hammock is a Chameleon, and the zip on chameleon looks very easy to work with, i want to get the 20 degree and was wondering how low can i get with a 20 degree UQ with UQ protector, and a 40 degree top quilt? thanks
    I forgot to answer your specific question: "i want to get the 20 degree and was wondering how low can i get with a 20 degree UQ with UQ protector, and a 40 degree top quilt?".

    Depending on all of those variables already mentioned, somewhere between 10 and 40F, or maybe even 30F(limitation: the 40F TQ). But, if that zip on UQ is as efficient at preventing gaps and drafts as say some insulated hammocks are, the FOR ME I would guess somewhere between 10 and 20F on the bottom, and maybe 30F on top(with a thick hood). More so if I start adding tricks such as already mentioned.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Otter1's Avatar
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    EDITED TO ADD: I don't recommend this to anyone who doesn't have lots of experience and doesn't know how to properly fit the underquilt, etc.

    I've done this quite a few times - with great (and surprising) success. My UQ is a Phoenix and my TQ is a EE Revelation. I was blown away as I've made it below 30f (low was 27f) more than once, and was cozy. My 40f Revelation is a true wonder to me. On the ground I don't go much below 40f with the same TQ, so the UQ is what does it, IMO.

    I think an UQP would make this doable even lower for me in identical circumstances. That said, a cold, snowy/rainy/sleeting evening with a lot of wind could make the experience quite miserable. So try it in the back yard so you can bail, be sure not to die, and report back.
    Last edited by Otter1; 06-14-2023 at 14:46.

  7. #17
    peeeeetey's Avatar
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    If your stuff is rated for 20 I would start testing at 35 to 40. Might be not rated to the right temp.

  8. #18
    ObdewlaX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otter1 View Post
    So try it in the back yard so you can bail, be sure not to die, and report back.
    LOL... words of wisdom!

  9. #19
    joe_guilbeau's Avatar
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    Sleeping bag temp ratings are not comfort ratings, they are survivability ratings.

    Bags only retain heat, so if you increase the insulation and loft, you increase the heat retention.

    Some top insulation has waterproof outer shells and welded seams, therefore heat retention has significantly less chances of being gone with the wind.

    If your metabolism is low one night and high the next, you comfort will follow accordingly, and since your equipment is unable to change its specs, you must regulate your metabolism accordingly.

    A familiar expression says that folks pack their fears, and this is hogwash.

    Folks pack their experiences, so go out and experience accordingly... and that is why they call it a Three Dog Night.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Otter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe_guilbeau View Post
    A familiar expression says that folks pack their fears, and this is hogwash.

    Folks pack their experiences, so go out and experience accordingly... and that is why they call it a Three Dog Night.
    I respectfully disagree - many DO, in fact, pack their fears. That's how many, many backpackers turned to lightening their loads. They packed based on fears of what COULD happen, not what they ever experienced. I definitely did this, especially when starting out.

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