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  1. #1
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    What is the lowest temperature I can get down to with 20 degree UQ & 40 degree TQ?

    I have a 40 degree UQ & TQ but I am only comfortable with them down to 55 degrees if i set it up right.

    Since my hammock is a Chameleon, and the zip on chameleon looks very easy to work with, i want to get the 20 degree and was wondering how low can i get with a 20 degree UQ with UQ protector, and a 40 degree top quilt?

    thanks

  2. #2
    FLTurtle's Avatar
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    Depends on what was getting cold. When you got cold with your 40/40 setup, was it only on your back?

    With my 40/40 Phoenix/Burrow, I've gotten cold as it approached the 40s. My feet and lower legs got cold with the 3/4 length UQ and I didn't supplement my footbox. But my upper body was fine.

  3. #3
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    Feet, lower legs and occasinally my a$$. All under. Top was ok i think

  4. #4
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    Elionoxa, people are different in their "I'm getting cold" level. And there is a difference between a bridge hammock and a gathered end (GE) hammock. And then there's the setup - how well the UQ is adjusted to the hammock. So you see, there is no definitive answer to your question.

    We like to think, "The vendor says this is a 20 UQ so I should be comfortable at 20. But that's just not how it works. Some people might be comfortable, but in 20 temperatures, I'd be comfortable with a 0 or 10 UQ. Also, maybe the 20 UQ would be comfortable if it were adjusted "just right"; maybe not.

    If the UQ is just on the edge of performance, an Under Quilt Protector (UQP) is an inexpensive addition that would definitely help. In winter temperatures a full sock would also add a lot of heat retention, but you could have condensation challenges as it's sort of like being in a suspended single-wall tent.

    The only way I find out what works for me is to try stuff outdoors. I sleep outside at night, but right next to the house I'm not a "hero", if I get cold, I go inside and note that my setup wasn't adequate for those conditions. I'm a great fan of a UQP. I know others think it is unnecessary or just an extra gadget, but, for me, because I can't be in the hammock, and check the UQ fit at the same time, the UQP makes that adjustment a little less critical.

    You don't need an "official" UQP to try it out. If you have an extra cheap hammock - iike some $10 Amazon bargain - you can string that up under your chameleon. Hang it loose so it doesn't compress your UQ. A real UQP will be lighter and have less packing bulk. You could also slip a pad between the UQP and the UQ for a little more of a buffer.

    Another gadget that can be useful is a thermometer that reports the minimum temperature. I use that in winter so I can see how cold it was where I was sleeping - not just what the newspaper or weather station on TV reported.

    Sort of an aside - my body's way of letting me know I have to get up at night is to stop making heat. Once I get up and take of the issue, I can settle back into the hammock and be warm again.

    So it's not so much a matter of what a 20 UQ should do, as it is what you need to be comfortable at 20
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  5. #5
    FLTurtle's Avatar
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    Well, if you go with the '10 degree buffer' rule, or in your case 15 degrees...a 20F UQ should get you down to 35F.

    Then the issue is...how well will that 40F TQ perform? Most people switch into sleep clothes, so they could help you get lower, depending on what you wear. You can't bundle up too much though, since thoses quilts need to trap body heat. Also, there's only so much down in that 40F TQ. Also, if you're warm/cold sleeper...if it's breezy out...filling a Nalgene with hot water and tucking it into your footbox...eating something before going to sleep...a whole bunch of factors to consider.

    The way I'd do it...get a 20/20 set. Use your 40/40 set into the mid 50s. Switch to the 20F UQ and the 40F TQ for between 40ish-55F and see how it goes.

  6. #6
    ObdewlaX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLTurtle View Post
    The way I'd do it...get a 20/20 set. Use your 40/40 set into the mid 50s. Switch to the 20F UQ and the 40F TQ for between 40ish-55F and see how it goes.
    +1

    Apart from hammock insulation, you've got base & mid layers, jacket, insulated pants, beanie, etc., that can extend your temp range a little bit more. I carry a synth pullover & pant set that works really well as part of my winter sleep system.

  7. #7
    Senior Member SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    I subscribe to the 10* buffer rule - making sure your quilts are rated at least 10 degrees warmer than the temps you expect to experience. And sometimes, that's wrong as well. I once went camping with expected lows of 18* F. However, when I arrived about 6 pm, it was already 13* F. The overnight low was -3* F. Thank goodness I had not only 0* quilts, but I also brought a 20* F set and stacked them.

    The further you get from civilization, the less reliable weather forecasts can be. There just aren't any weather stations out in the boonies.

    Personally, I have never understood why a few people think they can skimp on the TQ (like the OP's proposed 40* TQ and 20* UQ). You never hear anything like that from quilt vendors - it's always some random person (usually inexperienced) on HF. I also don't subscribe to the idea that you can augment your insulation with base layers, etc. I want my insulation to do its job without augmentation.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    I subscribe to the 10* buffer rule - making sure your quilts are rated at least 10 degrees warmer than the temps you expect to experience. And sometimes, that's wrong as well. I once went camping with expected lows of 18* F. However, when I arrived about 6 pm, it was already 13* F. The overnight low was -3* F. Thank goodness I had not only 0* quilts, but I also brought a 20* F set and stacked them.

    The further you get from civilization, the less reliable weather forecasts can be. There just aren't any weather stations out in the boonies.

    Personally, I have never understood why a few people think they can skimp on the TQ (like the OP's proposed 40* TQ and 20* UQ). You never hear anything like that from quilt vendors - it's always some random person (usually inexperienced) on HF. I also don't subscribe to the idea that you can augment your insulation with base layers, etc. I want my insulation to do its job without augmentation.
    I think in the OP's case, a 10* buffer rule isn't enough, as previously pointed out.

    I think you can be often comfortable with an UQ that's rated lower than a TQ, that is until you reach the TQ's limit!

    I also wouldn't count on "base layers" to add a lot of warmth. I look at them as adding comfort and cleanliness. On the other hand, insulation is insulation, if properly used. Loose, breathable layers CAN keep you warmer. Too tight or moisture absorbing will counteract the "good" insulation. Still, I agree, it's absolutely the best if the TQ and UQ are up to the temps encountered.

  9. #9
    Senior Member SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ObdewlaX View Post
    +1

    Apart from hammock insulation, you've got base & mid layers, jacket, insulated pants, beanie, etc., that can extend your temp range a little bit more. I carry a synth pullover & pant set that works really well as part of my winter sleep system.
    All that stuff will be compressed, so I don't even count it as insulation. Insulated pants, for example. Sure, the top part of the pants will provide insulation, but the compressed bottom is pretty much useless.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  10. #10
    FLTurtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    I subscribe to the 10* buffer rule - making sure your quilts are rated at least 10 degrees warmer than the temps you expect to experience. And sometimes, that's wrong as well. I once went camping with expected lows of 18* F. However, when I arrived about 6 pm, it was already 13* F. The overnight low was -3* F. Thank goodness I had not only 0* quilts, but I also brought a 20* F set and stacked them.

    The further you get from civilization, the less reliable weather forecasts can be. There just aren't any weather stations out in the boonies.

    Personally, I have never understood why a few people think they can skimp on the TQ (like the OP's proposed 40* TQ and 20* UQ). You never hear anything like that from quilt vendors - it's always some random person (usually inexperienced) on HF. I also don't subscribe to the idea that you can augment your insulation with base layers, etc. I want my insulation to do its job without augmentation.
    Yeah, I would expect the lower the temps, the more buffer I'm gonna want. No wants to be chilly...but once you get down below freezing, it can get dangerous. Forecasted temps for the nearest city ain't no way reliable to depend on when you're out in the woods. And if you're at elevation, you're gonna want to take that into account as well.

    My lowest rated quilts are 20/20 and I don't ever expect to get near those temps on purpose. Being in Florida, I only have to worry about that a few days out of the year.

    And I agree with you: the quilts should be comfortable without any augmentation down to their rated temps.

    All that stuff will be compressed, so I don't even count it as insulation. Insulated pants, for example. Sure, the top part of the pants will provide insulation, but the compressed bottom is pretty much useless.
    I use either merino wool or fleece for mid layer/sleep wear, so I don't think the compression would be that much of an issue...but yeah, I could see where down pants and jacket would get compressed on your back, which would require your UQ to do the heavy lifting of keeping you warm.

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