New product for Figure 9 users

[warbonnetguy]

well, it is a hitch i guess, but the fact that it is not closed (the device) like a ring means you can wrap it in 1 second rather than feeding the rope through the closed ring. a biner is not closed, but i know of no hitch that would work with rings or biners, that would be anywhere near this quick and adjustable. a clove hitch would hold, but is a pain to adjust, the munter can be adjusted easily (thats why they use it for belay/rappel emergency), but it is force from the belay/brake hand that locks the hitch, for a hammock, you would have to tie a seperate knott to perform this "lock off" function, and each time you adjusted it, you would have to untie the lock-off knot and then retie.

since you would be using tree straps, you couldn't leave it attached to the hammock line, only the straps, which means you would have to re-tie the hitch and the lock off knot each time you set it up. with the new hitch, only the hitch, no lock off.

so i guess ring buckles or cc buckles are faster than the nine, but only by the amount of time it takes to wrap the nine, like a second for each end, but for that matter i can tie my single sheet bend w/double bight directly to the webbing in about 2 seconds longer per end than it takes to adjust ring buckles. in fact, i bet the total time difference between ring adjustment and sheetbend adjustment is no more than a few seconds if you know how tie one quick, but sometimes it's just fun to play with hardware.

Thanks Warbonnet. I just meant the whole concept in general, I didn't mean apply your same wrap to a round connector. Just maybe an adjustable hitch instead that you'd lock after adjusting. Wouldn't something like a Munter hitch on a biner bite onto itself in the same fashion? I need to go try some instead of thinking out loud. But I see how your's is simpler and specific in utilizing the W shape.

[warbonnetguy]

hey pan, went to home depot and picked up some steel rings to try the garda hitch someone on the other thread was talking about, but i picked up another mini 9.

used the suggested wrap. it bent the exact same way, pinching onto the rope in the process aqain. got no slippage, but the rope was being pinched. anyway, 20 moderate bounces and it broke right at the bottom of the stem, but it broke on the opposite side of the bend. it was the tooth side that bent, but the failure was in the form of a tear on the opposite side of the bottom section, the smooth "hook"

[Peter_pan]

hey pan, went to home depot and picked up some steel rings to try the garda hitch someone on the other thread was talking about, but i picked up another mini 9.

used the suggested wrap. it bent the exact same way, pinching onto the rope in the process aqain. got no slippage, but the rope was being pinched. anyway, 20 moderate bounces and it broke right at the bottom of the stem, but it broke on the opposite side of the bend. it was the tooth side that bent, but the failure was in the form of a tear on the opposite side of the bottom section, the smooth "hook"

Warbonnetguy,

Thanks for the update....


Seems to me that the figure 9s for suspension has too many issues.... first, it is way beyond manufacture specs use.... Second, is the issue of rope damage, thus use on a long trip could also be catastrophic.... Third, the figure 9 bending could also present real disassembly issues in the field..... Fourth, metal fatigue at normal temps definately needs futher testing for issues at extremes of temp range.

alternate wrap is cool idea though, could help reduce teeth wear issue.

Pan

[warbonnetguy]

yeah, i'm guessing the 150# is a safe working load, which means the breaking strength should be quite a bit higher. maybe someone knows how to figure this out?

if you file off the teeth a bit, even if you just round them some, the chance of rope damage is a non-issue.

the fact that the mini held as much as it did says alot. the large is 10 x heavier. and it's stem is proportionally bigger as well.

haven't thought about heat and cold, but i've never heard of the strength of aluminum being affected by normal outside temps.

i'm not telling everyone it's safe, just that it passed the bounce test in my garage. anyone should certainly test it themselves with their own setup and bodyweight before using in the field, i do feel that it may indeed be plenty strong for use, although only time and use will tell.

Warbonnetguy,

Thanks for the update....


Seems to me that the figure 9s for suspension has too many issues.... first, it is way beyond manufacture specs use.... Second, is the issue of rope damage, thus use on a long trip could also be catastrophic.... Third, the figure 9 bending could also present real disassembly issues in the field..... Fourth, metal fatigue at normal temps definately needs futher testing for issues at extremes of temp range.

alternate wrap is cool idea though, could help reduce teeth wear issue.

Pan

[turk]

Just came home from work with a fresh pair of large standard 9's.
Will get out the file and do some bounce tests in the backyard tonight.
Let you know how it goes. I am a fair bit heavier at 185lbs.

[turk]

Fig 9's Large Smooth are completely bomb proof !
I secured up my HHULBA in record time. In the first 2 pics
I used some emery cloth to only subdue the teeth on the Figure 9's.
After only short testing tonight, I saw some signs of abrasion.

After bouncing and swinging in the hammock, and having my
daughter pile in for a total of aprox 230lbs, I have absolutely no
concerns or reservations with the large Fig 9's. I also tried Warbonnets
backwards wrap because it seemed good and strong but still absurdly
fast and simple.

In the 2nd pic, I tried using the Fig 9 across a larger
axis. I have no idea if this would be stronger or weaker

In the third pic, I have now used emery cloth to completely remove
the Fig 9 teeth and also round out the 'V' groove on both sides.
Now I have no fears at all of abrasion. And to think I almost cut
my lines and went buckles and webbing. eek!
This is way lighter, and easily as fast to adjust.
Now to shave more weight and make them into Warbonnets
Figure 9 Special Smooth's (F9SS will become the new buzzword acronym)

This is one sweet setup.! Webbing is out, Fig 9's are in
spread the word.

[schrochem]

Good to hear Turk.
I was thinking about all this on the way home
I like the idea of less webbing.
I was coming up with some crazy ideas but this is by far the simplest.
Looking back at WBG's F9SS )) it's really just a simple anchor type shape.
If strength is questionable I'm sure a machine shop could make one rather easily. I might ask a machinist I know about it...
But I want to go get one of these because I like the idea of less webbing and more rope.
Good find fellas

[warbonnetguy]

Webbing is out, Fig 9's are in
spread the word.

word,

glad you tried them.

i was thinking of drilling holes in strategic spots to reduce even more weight than just cutting off unnecessary parts. looks like the way u use them, you might have to leave more metal intact, but you're saving weight by not using tree straps, don't let a ranger catch you doing that.

what is emery cloth?

[warbonnetguy]

yeah, find out about it, it could be way lighter than my current one. the "flag" looking piece @ the top could be completely removed if there was a tiny eyelit at the top of the stem to tie the attachment cord to, and the stem could be shortened a bit as well, and the anchor hooks could probably be made a bit shorter than the factory one if they went up a little steeper. then you could drill some holes too. i bet you could get one down to 9-10 grams without sacrificing much if any strength (just be careful where you drill those holes).

Good to hear Turk.
I was thinking about all this on the way home
I like the idea of less webbing.
I was coming up with some crazy ideas but this is by far the simplest.
Looking back at WBG's F9SS )) it's really just a simple anchor type shape.
If strength is questionable I'm sure a machine shop could make one rather easily. I might ask a machinist I know about it...
But I want to go get one of these because I like the idea of less webbing and more rope.
Good find fellas

[GrizzlyAdams]

Fig 9's Large Smooth are completely bomb proof !

Good report turk.

"Who's Next" (where "Behind Blue Eyes" appears) is one of my favorite classic rock albums.

Grizz (behind green eyes)